Would Bowe 1992 Be too Much For Marciano ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Jun 28, 2019.

  1. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    Houdini / Perry needs his treadmill i think.
     
    mrkoolkevin, Pat M and Rainer like this.
  2. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Hi Rez. Not sure how either video supports your point. Louis falls backwards, his head is jolted in the direction of Galento's hook which carries the weight of forward momentum. Just as I would expect. And I don't see how he breaks his fall as he doesn't actually go down.

    Tyson's punch looks to have better form than Dempsey's. His feet are firmly planted and he turns his hip and body into the punch but I'd agree it doesn't have the devastating look of, say, a Frazier hook. Hard to see with this video as Berbick blocks our view of it landing.

    It's also hard to draw a comparison between this knockout and Dempsey's without seeing what Berbick does after Tyson's punch lands but, again, you'll see Berbick's body move to his left in the trajectory of the punch that just hit him and he doesn't appear to throw himself forward which is the reaction I would anticipate seeing. I would imagine he stumbled backwards in a discombobulated state, losing his footing and balance until eventually he toppled backwards. I don't think he would have had the presence of mind to use the hand that had just broken his fall to then clutch his own groin within a couple of seconds of hitting the deck.

    Another issue I had with Sharkey's reaction was he was hit on the cheek which doesn't shortcircuit the senses in the way a shot to the point of the jaw or, as in the Tyson-Berbick kayo, the temple might. In conclusion; a) Tyson's punch looks to have better form and lands in a more vulnerable spot and b) Berbick's reaction is much more in keeping with what I would expect to see than Sharkey throwing himself up in the air flopping forward, breaking his fall and then clutching his groin, all in the space of a couple of seconds.

    I think we'll have to agree to disagree again. As I say, I have no agenda; just saying what I see which is a view shared by others so, presumably, not an outlandish view. Maybe we're right, maybe you are. Houdini doesn't seem able to have a difference of opinion without being disrespectful but I'm sure you can beg to differ and move graciously on.
     
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  3. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    May 2, 2019
    We have taped testimony fro both fighters that directly contradict your statement.
    Why you keep harping on whether the punches were low or not is a total mystery,that is not the issue here!
    The issue plain and simply is you said neither fighter was cautioned for low punches then, a day later you retracted this.

    Next morning's AP report below.

    "Sharkey took the count of ten after going down from a vicious left hook to the jaw. The Boston sailor had claimed a foul blow to the mid-section just before the climax, but the referee, Jack O’Sullivan, refused to allow it and counted him out. Dempsey’s knockout victory, which sent the crowd into a delirious outburst, followed a slashing, slugging battle from start to finish. The former champion, staggered in the first round and groggy, came back to force the fighting and finally dropped his young rival." (Associated Press)


    "As Sharkey turned his head to complain to referee Jack O’Sullivan, Dempsey fired a compact hook to the point of the jaw that dropped Sharkey like a shot. Ten seconds later, the fight was over and Dempsey had earned his rematch with Tunney." Ring TV

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    This one gets on the list not so much because it’s a sucker punch for the ages but more because it’s arguably the most famous one in boxing history. In the seventh round of a rough and tumble slugfest, Sharkey turned to complain to the referee about a low blow. The moment he did, “The Manassa Mauler” struck home with a left hook that put “The Boston Gob” on the canvas for the count. It happened so fast it’s possible Dempsey didn’t realize what Sharkey was doing. But the situation wasn’t lost on the crowd in Yankee Stadium who felt Dempsey took unfair advantage. When questioned about the incident, Jack famously asked, “What was I supposed to do? Write him a letter?”Sport City.

    "One more fight against Jack Sharkey the following year had many convinced that Dempsey was a shadow of his former self. Sharkey was able to get the better of his man before being knocked out controversially in the 7th round when Dempsey threw a left hook upstairs that landed on Sharkey’s chin. Moments before, Sharkey turned to the referee to complain about the low blows that Dempsey was allegedly hitting him with and it seems that the former champion took his opportunity." Lee Skavyidis Ring News 24.

    <Jack Dempsey vs Jack Sharkey, 1927 " Jack Dempsey was after his first loss to Gene Tunney, fighting Sharkey in a elimination bout to get a shot at Tunney. Sharkey was ahead on points till the seventh round. He turned to the referee, complaining about Dempsey’s low blows, and got blindsided with a left shot to his chin, knocking him out".Sportige

    "June 21, 1927
    When Sharkey turned to the referee to complain of a low blow, Dempsey flattened him with a beautiful left hand. A major controversy ensued, but it enabled Dempsey to get the rematch with Gene Tunney that became The Long Count Fight." Sports Illustrated

    You also said Sharkey did not complain to the referee about low blows and we know he did from Sharkey's own mouth and Dempsey's too ,plus the ringside observers. You are wrong and I am right.
    You say Sharkey wore his trunks high in this fight so he could claim low punches were landed on him.

    Film shows Sharkey's trunks were no higher than Dempsey's and you were called on this
    a long time ago here is Klompton's response to your BS claims

    "Perry you can keep saying "people said Sharkey wore his trunks high" but we have photos and film of the contest. Its obvious his trunks werent high. Furthermore the ref actually said that the right hand preceding the knockout was low but then said that Dempsey landed a double left hook, one to the body which hurt sharkey, followed by one to the jaw. Problem is that the ref was on Dempsey's right hand side and couldnt have seen the fact that Dempsey did not land a left hook to the preceding the left to the jaw. Which means that if Sharkey was hurt preceding the knockout it came from the low blow which the ref saw. This means in fact that the ref admits that the damaging punch was the low blow. Why you invent these stories about the ref saying the three punches were legal illustrates your bias. Your bull**** about checking anatomy etc is just that. The punches were low and its obvious. When you can see the guys cup and trunks jumping up on impact of the blows thats a low blow. No legal punch is going to cause his trunks to ripple and rise up like that. Apologist. "

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    You got schooled on this subject 3 years ago .seems you haven't learned anything from that humiliation.
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    You've been made to look an overbearing know all here and exposed as a pathetic wannabee which has made toiling through your turgid self satisfied comments entirely worth it!
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019