Would Burley Have Been Robinson's best win?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by turbotime, Apr 25, 2013.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Anyone can stop anyone with that Manfredo ref.
     
  2. Anubis

    Anubis Boxing Addict

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    Agreed.

    It must be remembered that Charley was a full fledged middleweight by the time SRR began his professional career competing amongst the likes of Angott and other 135 pounders. Aside from LaMotta, Ray didn't play much with middleweights during Burley's 1940s prime. In fact, Charley was essentially finished by the time Robby was ready to move up to 160 full time.

    While I think Ray would have taken the decision, it would have been a stupid move on his part, like squaring off with the bigger Mongoose and Cobra (and Ray doesn't get much stick for "ducking" Moore and Charles at this time). Little payoff in exchange for the potential of sustaining substantial damage, even in a dull bout. His "best" win? Maybe. But also, very possibly, his most foolish win, a Pyrrhic victory. One doesn't move up an entire weight class or more against Burley without paying a deadly price, not even a prevalent Robinson.

    Saying, "I'm too pretty to fight Burley," is not the same as expressing the belief he couldn't win against Charley (officially, that is, but he might lose in an assortment of other ways). Competing against Burley simply wouldn't have been sensible, like challenging for the heavyweight title if he'd finished the distance with Maxim.
     
  3. turbotime

    turbotime Hall Of Famer Full Member

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    Love it.

    Now answer the question.
     
  4. Anubis

    Anubis Boxing Addict

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    Well, I started by saying I agreed with McGrain's post #2. But you're right to push me on this.

    Thinking on it further, I believe the answer's no. A win by Robby, however Pyrrhic, is lethal to Burley's legend, diminishing his stature severely by losing to a much lighter man. Charley competed, not in major bright light media centric venues like NYC, Chicago, Detroit, or Los Angeles but out in secondary California venues, Minnesota and western Pennsylvania. He did not rate an entry in Nat Fleischer's Ring Record books during the 1950s. Who was Charley Burley? It might have been Robinson's most difficult and challenging win, but he wouldn't be remembered for it today, unless it ruined him. If it did, it would just be dismissed as a matter of Burley beating up on a much lighter man who was badly matched.

    Angott, LaMotta, Fritzie, Olson, Gavilan, Gene Fullmer, Graziano and Basilio all achieved a level of recognition and accomplishment never available to Burley.

    SRR-Gavilan II ranks with Greb-Walker among the greatest successful title defenses ever pulled off. That needs to be remembered. It was a championship fight, against a challenger who himself would later pull off legendary defenses of that same title over Basilio, and Graham (when he actually dropped Billy in Havana). Robinson-Burley was never going to be a marquee world title fight, so no, I don't believe it could have surpassed the Keed.

    Beyond that, it's absolutely impossible for SRR W Burley to surpass SRR W UD 15 Maxim, if Robby had simply been propped up in a corner to cover up for two more rounds. That Robinson came as close as he did to toppling Maxim so lopsidedly while weighing in at the modern JMW limit is staggering enough. JD Turner doesn't quite measure up to a light heavyweight champion who held a win over the then reigning heavyweight champion.