Would Bute be Froch's best win?

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by Vano-Irons, May 21, 2012.


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  1. Vano-Irons

    Vano-Irons Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    As the title says, if Carl Froch beats Bute this weekend (and I mean really beats him, either by KO or non-contentious decision), would it be the cobra's best win?

    Things to consider

    1 Froch's Resume

    Froch has the best resume of any current British boxer. Back to back fights against Pascal, Taylor, Kessler, Dirrell, Abe and Johnson is a great run of top class opposition in the era of protected records. In fact, when Froch stopped Reid, the combined record of his opponents stands at 269 wins, against only 24 losses (14 of those were on Glen Johnson's record). If we take Glen off the record, his opponents' combined record reads 218-10!

    If we delve deeper than the numbers:

    Pascal, after he lost to Froch, went on to beat the best Light Heavyweight on the planet (Chad was, and still is, the number 1 in the decision.

    Jermaine Taylor had been the unified Middleweight champion, beating Hopkins twice along the way.

    Kessler had only ever lost to the best, Abe only had 1 defeat to his name (and was the favourite against Froch), and Johnson was a rugged experienced warrior who lays down for no-one.

    How good is Bute?

    Well, he has defended his IBF title what, 8 times now? But we still know little about him IMO.

    What we do know is that he is an unbeaten, quick, slick, hitter who can box, while possessing a deverstating left uppercut-come-hook to the body. But he has very much operated at a level below Froch. Guy like Magee, Mendy, Miranda and Bika, while very good, are not guys at the upper edges of the world class scene. Serious question marks arose when he was knocked out against Andrade :hey and he had also been stopped in the amateurs by the big punching Golovkin (a middleweight).

    In many ways, this could be a lose - lose for Froch here. On the one hand, if he knocks Bute out, people will say he was hyped and had been knocked out before in an attempted to discredit the win, or he loses to a now proven Bute who looks the best in the world at 168.

    So, a couple of questions here:

    1 - How good is Luican Bute?
    2 - If Froch beats him, would it be Carl's best win?
    3 - Rank Froch's best 5 wins, in order.

    P.S. For the haters, check the avatar :yep
     
    Vano-Irons, May 21, 2012
    Vano-Irons, May 21, 2012
    #1
  2. MyName

    MyName Simon Adebisi Full Member

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    -Bute's good.Underrated,people act like he's been beating just bums a la Cleverly and not looking impressive.
    Outside of Ward I wouldn't pick anyone at 168 over him.

    -Yes,it would be Froch's best win.

    -1.Abraham
    2.Pascal
    3.Taylor
    4.Johnson
    5.Dirrell
     
    MyName, May 21, 2012
    MyName, May 21, 2012
    #2
  3. Burebista

    Burebista Member Full Member

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    Froch top5 wins:
    Taylor
    Pascal
    Dirrell (!)
    Johnson
    Magee

    Bute clearly tops that anyway you put it. He's at the peak of his career, was ranked #1 of the division not so long ago, is highly ranked by most boxing experts as one of the best current SMW, placed by most of them in 2nd place right now. He's all rounded hes' quite technical and pretty powerful his speed ain't bad at all so he got quite a few great qualities. If Froch beats Bute means that The Cobra has something special that non of us or very few have noticed. Very hard to believe it will be so tho cuz Froch has lost before and has lost being clearly outclassed, lost twice... once against a fighter who now seems his best is well behind him and came close to lose two more times. So even tho he looks hard to beat, by some , It would probably be far easier than we imagine by elite lvl guys like Bute and Ward or Dawson.
     
    Burebista, May 21, 2012
    Burebista, May 21, 2012
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  4. Vano-Irons

    Vano-Irons Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I'd tend to agree, even tho i'm still not completely sold on Bute (simply because he hadnt fought one of the top guys yet. Froch is clearly his toughest test, but Ward and maybe Kessler were better fighters when Froch fought them IMO.

    As for his best wins, i'd probably go:

    Taylor
    Pascal
    Abe (although probably his best performance)
    Dirrell
    Johnson
     
    Vano-Irons, May 21, 2012
    Vano-Irons, May 21, 2012
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  5. MyName

    MyName Simon Adebisi Full Member

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    :verysad
     
    MyName, May 21, 2012
    MyName, May 21, 2012
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  6. Vano-Irons

    Vano-Irons Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    That's a fair comment. I mean, we didn't really know how good pascal was until the Dawson win
     
    Vano-Irons, May 21, 2012
    Vano-Irons, May 21, 2012
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  7. Burebista

    Burebista Member Full Member

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    No it's not fair. Froch fought Pascal when he was very green, so he should be praised for beating a crude Pascal not a polished and the experienced and cerebral fighter he became after. So you need to judge the fighter on what he accomplished until then and how good was back then. Who know maybe if they fight today Pascal wins.
     
    Burebista, May 21, 2012
    Burebista, May 21, 2012
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  8. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    Bute is his best opponent. No doubt in my mind. Bute has done what a top fighter should do against second tier contenders.

    Froch will be the best scalp Bute will have claimed. Outside of Ward there's little he can do but move up to further boost his standing. Carl Froch coming off a resounding loss will be the best win on his resume unless he gets a fight with Ward or moves up to 175 (hope he does)

    War Froch but can't see it happening. Opposition aside (and they haven't been shite, bar a couple) Bute looks perfectly equipped to beat Froch handily, and hurt him doing it.
     
    Flea Man, May 21, 2012
    Flea Man, May 21, 2012
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  9. MyName

    MyName Simon Adebisi Full Member

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    No chance Taylor is his best win.Shouldn't be in discussion.

    That's one way of putting it about Taylor.Another way would be he was quite clearly past it getting beat by everybody with a pulse usually getting sparked out.Most recently he was put down by a bum.

    Taylor winning if he finished on his feet would show how poor Froch is/was altough you could say he wasn't gonna fancy a points win anyway.

    Absolutely no way Taylor win would be better than a Bute win.No way.None.
     
    MyName, May 21, 2012
    MyName, May 21, 2012
    #9
  10. Vano-Irons

    Vano-Irons Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Na I think Froch beats him easier today than he did back then. It was only 18 months or so after he lost to Froch that he stopped Dawson. You don't go from being very green to massively experienced in 8 months, althought re Groch fight certainly taught him a lot, and he has become a better fighter from it.

    Flea, do you think Bute is better than Ward?
     
    Vano-Irons, May 21, 2012
    Vano-Irons, May 21, 2012
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  11. Burebista

    Burebista Member Full Member

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    Back then Taylor wasn't that faded he still got something left, if you ask me that fight took what he had left out of him. Taylor was by far his biggest challenge, like was stated before he was few seconds away from winning the fight. Just think that he got the wrong advice from his corner saying he was behind so he would win the last round to, by doing that his corner made him try to fight until he had nothing left in the tank, Imagine if his trainer would say to him just survive this round and you won. With another game-plan in the last round with more clinches he could have probably gained those precious few seconds.
    Taylor had power was very technically sound and had some speed to. He was quite good.
     
    Burebista, May 21, 2012
    Burebista, May 21, 2012
    #11
  12. sud2002

    sud2002 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It's easy to put a spin on things:

    Froch fought a Taylor that got spanked by Abraham.
    Dirrell was an overrated win, after all what has Dirrell done?
    Johnson way past it.
    What has Abraham done in the super middleweight division?
    Pascal is his best win for me.

    I think it is an overrated resume but still arguably the best active British one.
     
    sud2002, May 21, 2012
    sud2002, May 21, 2012
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  13. Burebista

    Burebista Member Full Member

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    After a win or a near loss you raise you game to a whole 'nother lvl.
    You are motivated and you train harder you hire better ppl you try new things, you are more fit you have better game-plane and more than one etc. Some can raise their game(Bute after Andrade I) some can't(Abraham after Froch). You need to have the foundation built for development already.
     
    Burebista, May 21, 2012
    Burebista, May 21, 2012
    #13
  14. connorcinhull

    connorcinhull Active Member Full Member

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    Quite possibly.. For some reason Bute is ranked higher than most of Froch's past few fantastic opponents..
     
    connorcinhull, May 21, 2012
    connorcinhull, May 21, 2012
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  15. BoxingAnalyst

    BoxingAnalyst Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Ward?

    And **** off Flea, Bute hasn't got the minerals to beat Frochy :yep

    And yes, I am on the shandy :hi:
     
    BoxingAnalyst, May 21, 2012
    BoxingAnalyst, May 21, 2012
    #15
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