would calzaghe be as underrated if he was american...

His victory over Hopkins wasnt even conviencing
and he refired instead of having a rematch

 

And this is the point of the thread. Pavlik is a limited fight not anywhere near Joe's league. But as an American who had a TV contract he is given way more respect than he deserves.

If Joe was American he would have been a superstar. If medicore fighters like Pavlik and Taylor can be considered great think what the American public would have thought of Joe.

 

this is the truth :deal

 

Calzaghe has not been forgiven for beating Hopkins when Hopkins was Ring LHW champ. Who was Calzaghe meant to fight when moving up in weight? He fought the LHW champ.
If Calzaghe had of been KOd by Hopkins, some people would have ridiculed him but im sure others on here would say, I respect him for coming over and trying against Hopkins, he just wasnt good enough, instead Calzaghe beat Hopkins, so other excuses have to be made.
Pavlik and Tarver losses to Hopkins were pretty much brushed under the table, yet Calzaghe is critisied for winning.
Calzaghe would have been much more popular if he was American, an underdog beating the more experienced Eubank, the underdog schooling the next big SMW Lacy, going up a division to take on the top man at LHW in Hopkins and beating him, not to mention winning all the SMW titles and beating other top established fighters. Calzaghe would have probably gone on the Rings P4P list after Calzaghe had beaten Mitchell and Brewer even though they are arguably lesser fighters than Reid and Woodhall.

 

I agree to an extent with all your points Bailey, but I think the separating factor here is that most of the guys(excluding Mosley) you listed are young, with much still ahead of them, but more importantly no one is touting them as a top level ATG, and (except Mosley again) arent even mentioned in any atg discussion. They may be ok/good/great fighters at the moment, but still need to do alot to get raised up on a pedestal like that. You might not necessarily be the one doing it, but alot of JC's detractors' arguments are geared toward some of the more over the top Calzaghe supporters.

Even so, some of the guys you list on there come under fire. Pavlik gets endless criticism for his lack of opposition for the past 2 + years. And that was only a span of 3 or 4 fights. Dawson is starting to hear the rumblings I think, and could be facing some of the same criticism Calzaghe faced if he does not turn it up a notch. Cunningham(unfortunately) is hardly well known and really doesnt factor in.

 

Hindsight is 20/20. At the time you have to say Pavlik earned his share of the US spotlight. Back to back KO's of Miranda and Taylor and then a succesful rematch with Taylor. People get and are getting hyped for less all over the world. Taylor had two wins over Hopkins and I'm guessing that he was mostly well regarded at the time. Pavliks boxing limitations are evident now and most beaten opponents are losers but he didn't dance in the shadows and say look at me. I'm not implying Cazaghe did. I'm just giving the Pavlik of that time a little credit.

I also think that Calzaghe would have beaten Pavlik anywhere and anytime. He really might have made him quit. Even when Pavlik hype was high, I've never forgotten my old Sugar Ray Vs. Haggler lesson. If Calzaghe had fought Pavlik before Hopkins fought either, his esteem here would have rissen - he would have grabbed that short lived cache. I'm not saying it's right but thats how it goes.

 

The point is more if calzaghe was american would he have lost a few and i think yes.

 

IMO if Calzaghe fought his whole career in the states,he wouldn't have a 46-0 record.

 

He would be idolized!

 

To who? Who in the SMW division would have beaten him? Who didnt he face that was willing to face him?
The SMW division was stronger in Europe than America, in the time Calzaghe was running the division

Why not? What top SMWs from America didnt Calzaghe face?

Who are all these great American SMWs that would have beaten Calzaghe? He beat Brewer, Sheika, Mitchell, Manfredo & Lacy.

Tell me which SMW has a better resume and has done more. 21 title defences WBO, WBC, WBA & IBF titles.

I bet I dont get an answer, but if I do hopefully it will be a sensible one

 

But hopefully you understand what im saying in that if a fighter is known to the public, it seems every fight they have is highly regarded. If say A Ward beats A Green he will be given alot of credit but A Green has a lesser resume in my opinion than R Steiglitz, who isnt as well known due to not having the super 6 to promote him.
I did mention you may say these guys arent HOFs but then pointed Mosely as an example along with Hopkins.

 

nope. calzaghe fans want to make that claim but all you have to look at is rjj. he was 48-1, (with the only loss being a dq) and he was still getting critisized for his competition. now of course, when you arent an american fighter, it is harder to get the due you deserven but in the case of calzaghe whether he is british, american, chinese, asian or whatever, it dosent change the fact that his resume is kind of weak.

 

Glen Johnson for one ? he ducked him no less than 3 times.

 

Calzaghe never would have retired undefeated had he been American. He would still be underrated.

 

so you think Glen Johnson could beat Calzaghe at SMW? Seriously?