Would Holyfield Have A Chance Against Sonny Liston?

It doesn't matter how you got there... all that matters is the end result. If Liston did this or did that, whatever... that's a bull**** statement. If my Aunt had nuts she'd be my Uncle!!! If so and so would have just trained with the right people for 20 years, took steroids, and...... but they didn't so give it a rest.

Holyfield was/is very strong. Lee Haney (8x Mr. Olympia used to lift with Holyfield in the late 80's and early 90's and stated that Holyfield once bench pressed 455 Lbs for 8 reps just messing around one day). This doesn't translate to punching power but being strong helps in many other ways obviously.

Liston was a strong guy but I doubt he was as strong as Holyfield.

 

Still, it's hard to compare eras if Liston didn't have the same advantages as Holyfield had. Give Liston steroids and the same wieght training holyfield had, he would weigh way more then him. Considering they weighed pretty much the same but Liston is natural.
I don't think there is any way to measure the strength if Liston never used weights/never bench pressed. Assuming he did, he would end up way stronger then holyfield.
and the roids play a big part of it.

 

You think you're slick? I did say the words "press conference" in reference to the timing of the event. Get off your high horse and join the conversation other then attempting to poke holes in it. I put up that comment to see if anybody could continue that conversation on Ali's pre-fight point. Perhaps shed light on Ali's view on that particular point? You know, get the ball rolling in this particular thread. So save your silly emoticons for a text message and try to be constructive in this situation. It is the classic board, and we are trying to reach a consensus of opinion. If I spent my time pointing out what I assume to be wrong, I'd be wasting a lot of time here.

I'm trying to see if I can find any comment from Ali on Liston-Foreman (post Zaire). The trouble with Ali is that he talked. And talked. And talked. With a media person around he was always spouting out conversation placing him between fight scholar and non-sense spin doctor. I'd say more of the latter works in this situation.

 

2nd tier contenders are 2nd tier because they are good enough to be at the level to challenge a top contender and durable enough to give them a hard time. Every champion has struggled with those type of opponents.

Prime Holyfield stops Liston. You mean to tell me a guy who walked through punches from George Foreman, Mike Tyson and Lennox Lewis is going to have a problem with Sonny Liston's power? Nonsense.

 

I'm confused on why everybody is so high on Holyfield. He did get beat, thus proving vulnerability. He did get beat by Riddick Bowe! He did get beat during his prime! By a man that we look back upon as a colossal waste of talent, yet we seem to forget Bowe did reach that height by beating Holyfield. You can't automatically shutout the possibility of Liston having a chance here, because he does.

That's why I'm placing this fight at "pick 'em" status. I can see it going either way. Plus this is all theoretical! I can see Liston getting "in there" and doing the type of damage we've seen in the footage from the past. I can also see Holyfield holding his ground the way we remember him. Both fighters are damn good, and I can't rule out the possibility for either man to win in the ring.

 

Wow,

ESB is extremely high on Evander Holyfield. I never new a steroid user would get so much respect. I am outnumbered here. God, I can only imagine if Liston took steroids what he would look like. With all the respect Evander Holyfield is getting in this thread, then people must be foaming at the mouth over Riddick Bowe for dominating a peak evander holyfield. Let me tell you something, Bowe would never have beaten Liston. I have like 7 different points to refute above.

Ill start with this

You said he wasn't tough. I was making a point that Liston beating the **** out of a cop who drew a billy club on him means you don't **** with Liston. You don't **** with him in or out of the ring. He was a tough son of a *****.

 

Evander was a warrior who fought everybody. But this kind of an outstanding resume blinds people to the reality of his results. Evander went 1-4 vs Bowe and Lewis. In these fights, he had extreme problems with a long stiff Jab. Liston has one of the best, which happens to be 84" long(Same as Lewis/Bowe). He also got hammered on the inside by Bowe's clubs and uppercuts. Liston a long armed fighter, was actually a terrific inside fighter like bowe and his specialty was the clubbing right hand(Bowe) and wicked Uppercut(like bowe)...Combined with an ATG Left Hook(which bowe didn't have). Liston also had the natural strength and size to not allow Holyfield to wear him down in close. I personally think Liston was stronger, especially when you take into account he didn't take roids like Evander does. Evander loved to brawl. No mistake about it. We saw that this backfired many times in his career. Aging Michael Dokes, Bert Cooper..all slugged on even terms with him. If evander expects to win this fight, he can't be drawn into a brawl with Sonny. Unfortunetly, he will be. Because it is human nature for Evander to do so. He will be outgunned in this department. Evander's best bet is to stay on the outside and box with combinations in and out. Even then, Liston's long jab on the outside is going to completely throw evander's game plan off, forcing evander to work inside and brawl.


I like Liston

 

In Liston's near/prime years 1958-1964...He never struggled with a 2nd tier contender. This is what made Liston so special.

Whatever floats your boat...I guess :roll:

Alex Stewart, Axel Shulz, Lou Saverese, Crawford Grimsley all walked thru fat old Foreman's punches. Gimme a break. That was not a 1973 Foreman in there.

Evander took a few big bombs off mike, but again, that was not a 1986 Mike Tyson in there. He was a predictable head hunter at that point. A 1960 Sonny Liston is a different animal.

Also...

Evander could not walk thru Riddick Bowe, Bert Cooper's punches. Neither of those men were punchers on the level of a sonny liston.


Liston is an ATG puncher and ATG finisher. He has the goods to put Evander away. Just because Evander was on the roids doesn't make him impervious to being knocked out. Riddick Bowe stopped Evander.

 

Bringing up fighters liston fought in his 5th and 8th pro bouts? I might as well bring up Evander's knockout loss to James Toney, and embarrasing loss to Larry Donald

 

Who did a prime Holyfield struggle with? Honestly? Bert Cooper for about 5 seconds? You are the one who said he struggled with "2nd teir" fighters... who are these fighters?

 

Holyfield struggled with just about every fighter he faced in the sense that he got hit an awful lot, but the outcome was never in doubt, which is the main thing.

 

Holyfield wasn't a bodybuilder.

 

We will never make a consensus idea. That's about as idealistic as the Venus Project.

Your last paragraph hits it home. Ali talked and talked and lost track of what he was saying. I have comments post-Zaire from my Ali Collection with Ali saying Frazier hit harder than Foreman. Something I have trouble believing... maybe Foreman never caught him as clean as Frazier or Shavers did. I think Ali's assessment is somewhat reasonable of Foreman in comparison to Liston except for the ideas of punching power. It seemed Foreman had matched or possibly surpassed Liston in that regard the way he was KOing Frazier and Norton.

Not only did Ali talk but a lot of fighters talk, and often conflicting. Fighters who seldom say things are generally the most credible when it comes to their true feelings. You can't find conflicting information. Foreman talks about being scared of practically everyone... did he look afraid of anything in his prime?

I believe, though, Ali said that Foreman was the "strongest." Patterson the most skilled, Frazier the toughest, and Foreman the strongest. I believe he did say this when he retired...

 

Wow Liston on steriods, he would be a mix of Ike IBeabuchi, Mike Tyson and Frank Bruno and would definatley scare a few fighters to death

 

****, sorry to jump in on page 7. i was just thinking about this the other day watching holyfield/foreman. i'll say this 58-60 liston had at worst the second best jab in heavyweight history, a full arsenal of punches and fantastic combinations. if foreman can catch holyfield with the jab, you can sure bet liston would. he'd have that left rammed down his throat, round after round. liston could fight in the trenches when he had to and though holyfield would work inside and have his moments, i feel liston could do very well at that distance to. holyfield's mobility might trouble liston at times but sonny would catch him coming in. brutal UD decision for sonny