Would Ike Ibeabuchi give Ali a harder fight than Foreman/Liston/Frazier/Norton did?

If Wooden, Ike, and Rahman is any indication of how he handles strong sluggers of dubious quality...I don't think I would count on that. Late stoppage at best. The battle of the jelly bellies though, would like to see that tournament.

 

no

 

It's not about "old" and its not about "middleweight". Its about being "Fat". Moore and Charles were former middleweights, they were older, but they were not fat. They were a lean and ripped 185lb in shape when they fought Marciano. Toney was a fat sack of crap 240lb when he fought Peter. Obesely fat. if there's one thing I am big on, it's fighters showing up to fight in shape.


Had peter weighed in at 217lb against Peter, like he did vs holyfield, i would give peter a lot more credit for the victory.

 

This is true. However, I'm not trying to build Peter up as killer, but I do think his subpar belt run still adds up more to what prospects like Byrd and Tua were doing at the time of the Ike fights. In short, I think wins over a fat but than still relevant contender in James Tony means more than prospects beating gate keepers, no matter how impressively, just not a great guage. Peter was simply inconsistent and lazy at the top, getting huge praise for the second Toney fight only to generate head scratching disappointment against McCline.

 

So who has vitali ever beaten that would have defeated 27-0 Chris Bryd and 26-0 David Tua?

 

Why doesn't it make sense? Powerful one or two punch KOs aren't the only way to stop someone. You can stop someone through accumulation of punishment over the distance, or by cuts, heavy bruising to the face & eyes, or just a well-timed shot they didn't see coming (e.g. Ali Bonavena)

 

H2H, who knows. Arreola and Peter are the closest style wise to Ike, durable strong brawlers. Sub Ike for the hungry Arreola that faced Vitali into the Tua fight and you would have another interesting brawl I think. Especially when Tua spotted Ike 5 rounds because he was expecting his power to bail him out late again.

A cocky untested Byrd could very well get caught by a Peter left hook after winning several rounds as well. Ike was an underdog with some unimpressive performances against subpar competitioin going into the Tua and Byrd fights...I wouldn't rule out the above scenarios, especially at the feeling out fringe level. Byrd claims the Ike loss made him a better fighter and I think it did, I can't see that careless version of him going the distance with Wlad and upsetting Tua a little down the road; he was really going out of his way to make Ike look bad in that fight and it came back on him.

 

Noone but styles make fights and because of that neither of these guys gives us any indication of how Ike handles a tall fighter that uses every bit of his height and is very awkward. Yes Vitali never faced anyone as good as Ike looked, but he showed he could handle crude brawlers and green fighters, which for the most part Ike was at the time. Sure he showed great potential, but Vitali represents a style he never faced in a pro fight.

 

But Tua didn't hit with just 1 or 2 solid shots, he hit Ike with a ton of power shots and didn't get him out. Unless Ali's jabs are more powerful than Tua's hooks, Ike won't get iced by Ail.

 

Ike is too much of an unproven entity to really make a proper determination.

 

Tua is overrated, hardly leagues above the likes of Arreola and Peter. And Vitali was 9 rounds up against Byrd before his injury, about a year after Ike fought him. Obviously he didn't beat Byrd, but he would have on any other night barring another freak injury

 

I think he could have beaten Frazier and Norton.

I certainly wouldn't rule it out.

Good thread, because it is indeed an interesting question.

To be fair Ike was never given that opportunity to be in the class of ATG's through his own merit. But Classic posters at the very least watch boxing enough to spot out talent. He had the goods and as far as I'm concerned I think Ibeabuchi was the heir apparent to Lennox's throne, not Wlad Klitschko (who by the way happens to be pretty damn good inspite of a weak division) and I still think that to this day.

Good power, Stamina, Workrate, Chin and physical advantages that would make him competitive with anyone. I'm not saying he'd beat Muhammad Ali but I do think that he'd be one tough customer.

 

At their best, I would pick Ali by a comfortable, unanimous decision. But I wouldn't be shocked if Ali found a way to stop him late.

 

:good:good

Norton definetely.
Frazier, well, I don't think so, maybe he might get caught, but Foreman doesn't punch like Frazier. Frazier would love to start wrestling and punching with someone his own size and strength. Plus as the fight goes on, Frazier would only be getting stronger, and Tua would probably weaken. But Tua has a chance.