Would it have been ethical for Ken Norton to use PEDs?

Maybe Moore was more than solid compared to fighters of his day in specific upper body measurements.
Although at that weight he was not large for the era. His arms were definitely big-but not for a HW today.
Part of it is like ust explained about Norton, aesthetics. If not muscle insertion, muscle to joint size ratio, low body fat, & just happening to have a bicpes peak-at least mostly genetic-looks especially impressive.

There are many videos on youtube about how for years now Hollywood actors use PEDs to get "jacked" for roles. HGH is especially common.
I did not hear about Charles Bronson, & am saying it was way less common, certainly including Hollywood, in the 1970's.
Here he is in a film I enjoyed on TV, would have been 53 when it was filmed. He certainly could have used PEDs, althogh from his size (& lack of disproportionate development around the neck/traps/shoulders due to more androgen receptors), he also could have been natural.
[url]https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073092/mediaindex[/url]

 

The talk of Moore gave me cause to re-watch his fight with Rocky.

What a great fight!! The early KD was a nice manifest result for Archie but boy did he have Marciano in all sorts of trouble throughout. I noticed Rocky’s cornerman (how many were there?) had Rocky obscured between rds - beyond the happenstance of his corner merely attending to him. Point being, though legal, I’m guessing plenty of smelling salts and whatever else were being administered to help Rocky fight through the heavy fog.

Rocky did fight through of course but he appeared quite distressed all the way to the end. Was his decision to retire only mentioned after this fight? The commentator says, as if a given, Rocky will seek 50-0 so I’m guessing no hint to retire pre Moore?

Despite that golden carrot (50-0), Marciano’s decision to retire was perfect. On the heels of the Moore fight, things could’ve got quite messy very quickly for Rocky in ensuing bouts. The way Rocky fought, the body can only take some much with a sudden decline that can be swift and dramatic lurking around the corner.

Moore was gracious in defeat. He acknowledged Rocky’s relentless two handed power. The funny thing he said though re Rocky was “He’s got a long way to go”. LOL. C’mon Arch, not everyone can fight forever like YOU. Compared to Moores record and age, Rocky must’ve seemed like a fledgling, wet behind the ears, with still a lot to learn pro.

As to trying to gage usage based on less common physiques. Yep, it often comes back to simply being cut with some above average muscle mass but the type of muscle achievable by natural means. Eugene Sandow going all the way back to the 1890s is an extreme example of a naturally built body - though even some of his stats have been hiked up by some.

Is there ever any example just based upon appearances alone, you’d bet your house on the individual being a user?

I guess there could be but there would so many other users falling short of the extreme physical effects who you might be suspicious of but never know for sure.

A co-star of Will Smith accused the actor of taking some sort of enhancer to build up for the movie Ali - but the guy had other issues with Smith which might’ve been his motive to make a false claim.

Though, I will say that Smith’s muscles did appear not so regular to me - very smooth and as if inflated via air bladders inserted beneath the skin to convey the look I’m taking about - bordering on prosthetic. I guess there maybe “legal” protein cocktails that push the boundaries - allowing one to technically divorce themselves from using PEDs but there still might be a bit of something in the ingredients.

I dunno, I’m no expert in that area but it’s a very interesting subject nonetheless.

 

Trouble in most cases we cannot know-but some there is enough evidence to bet the proverbal house.
Someone like Holyfield-I would have only suspected based upon how rapid the muscle mass was added, heart troubles, contemporaneous baldness-but the Balco revelations makes it nearly a sure thing.

Most other boxers we do not know, barring positive PED tests.
Some bodybuilders & other athletes like Professional wrestlers have their total mass exceed what is plausible even for someone with excellent genetic potential & years of the best training & nutrition.
A Ronnie Coleman at under 6' & 300 lbs. at max 5% boy fat FAR exceeds that.
Take a man 6' 2" & 250 lbs. at 10% BF: that is roughly the limit of what a man with a very large bone structure can achieve naturally.
An some use with much less or little mass-or covered with fat.

I dunno about WIll Smith. Some guys tend to show muscle more or differently.
He & many might have used-or may never have.

Although for some years now many Hollywood guys DO use junk to pump up for roles, superheros especially.
Someone like The Rock-that is big & defined enough that it is very unlikely he is natural. Although his bulk has varied. Few would suspect he is lifetime clean lol!
John Cena has dispropotionate arms & shoulders-it seems unlikely that he is all natural.

 

I was thinking the same thing. I didn't know him obviously but I can't see him doing anything unethical in the ring.

 

Interesting thread.

Haters gonna hate.

IMO Kenny just happened to be a natural born athlete with a gifted physique.
Long before getting into boxing Norton was already a high school and college football and track star.
He also got into movies thanks to his superb appearance.
Norton wasn't even a dedicated weightlifter. He was just a natural.

I must add that you haters are very lucky my dear momma is long gone.
She didn't know a thing about boxing but sure she digged Norton's biceps.
Were she here with us, all of you haters would be in serious problems for doubting the "Beautiful Body".

 

And Norton was one guy Ali couldn’t hold anything over - nothing to criticise physically or intellectually in respect of Ken.

In fact, there’s the story where Norton stole the ladies attention away from Ali - it happened in the foyer of the motel they were both staying at.

Apparently the “prettiest” wasn’t too pleased about it..….lol.

In positive reflection of himself, Ken single handedly brought up a great son in Ken Jr. - nice that they were able to reconcile before Ken passed.

By the sounds of it, they were both as stubborn as each…like father like son, but they were never disconnected emotionally which eventually brought them back together.