Would jack johnson style work today

The title of the thread says, Would Jack Johnson's style work today, NOT would Jack Johnson be heavyweight champion today with that style.


Anyone can use that style, yet none today do! What does that tell you?! :deal



If you ask me the style Johnson employed would not be a foundation for any champion today. I also think Johnson would not be heavyweight champion today, but could be the #1 person at at Cruiser weight.

 

Non-sense, people at larry holmes time thought little of him, he was viewed as little more than a clown who crushed tomato cans and often lost to them. Larry ducked plenty of guys, and I have a thread on it, go look at it. Pinklon was an actual champion, larry was never an actual lineal champion. Go read the thread, Larry never held the title that was defacto lineal. When he beat Ali it was when ali returned from retirement, retired boxers LOSE their lineal title status on retirement or exiting the boxing game. This is what happened. Larry never fought the guys who held Ali's belt after Ali retired and were true champions. Of the guys you named, how many times did larry get knocked down in those fight. How many of those other fights could have and should have gone to the challenger. Larry's record could just as easily had 10 more losses on it.

Larry Jab works well on guys it lands on which are low quality fighters which is why he dropped his title to avoid fighting real boxers with championship belts. Larry's jab works on guys who will stand in a spot let someone pop a jab off on you and not move around.. A jab like that is a huge disadvantage, any decent boxer would just move his head 3 inches and nail you with the hook from hell. and well mike tyson showed that. It is not like Ali where when he jabs you he takes a big step back so your hook misses. He just stands in one spot and throws a big telegraphed left jab. And that is why he had to fight such crumb bum opponents.

Larry never had a prime, he was always a garbage man. He got knocked down from the start to the end of his career by bums, there was no prime. Its why people laughed at him for trying to say he was half as good as marciano. Where marciano beat 3 former top class world champions, larry got beat by lhws and knocked out by iron mike tyson.

You probably did it wrong.

 

I firmly disagree. In fact you have history totally backwards.

A fighter does not need to beat the champion once the champion retires in order to be the new champion. Sharkey and Schmeling fought for the vacant title, Schmeling won and he became the new lineal champion. Same when Patterson beat Moore. History however is never neat and tidy...sometimes you need to put the pieces together. Holmes beating the unretired Ali along with his victory over No 1 contender Norton made him the most deserving fighter to claim the true championship. No other fighter at that time had that level of credentials.

The tournament put together after Ali retired was bogus. It did not contain many of the true leading contenders at that time.

Pinklon Thomas was never lineal champion. Nor was the entire line starting with Tate.

I don't know where your coming from regarding Holmes. He was well respected as champion...great all time jab, terrific fighter and head and shoulders above Thomas and his like. Early on Holmes showed nice movement in the ring...later on he became more stationary using a ram rod jab and side stepping as he showed against Cooney.

Tyson beat an old and worn Holmes. Aside from that bout only shavers an all time puncher and Snipes knocked him down in his prime years.

 

It tells you there's a large difference between not adopting a syle because you lack the incredible speed and reflexes, as opposed to not adopting one because it doesn't make any sense.

 

Until this posting I wasn't sure if you were just arrogant or arrogant and boxing illiterate. You have now clarified it.

 

Agree with you totally. Ipay4leavingnot is one of the most unknowledgeble posters I have ever seen here.

 

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Neither Brewster or Sanders were truly champions. They benefitted living in an era when everyone and their brother could hold a paper title. Wlad was not just stopped by these three but stopped in a fashion a great fight should not be stopped. Falling all over himself, dropping to the floor in sections with that I want to quit look in his eye. Admit it or not but it's the truth. No great fighter should be koed by someone like Purrity in the manner in which he was koed by Purrity.

 

Langford was knocked out by a welterweight. What other heavyweight great was knocked out by a welterweight? Purrity is a pretty bad loss for Wlad, but hey puncher's chance.

 

And Dinovelvet's alias reveals himself.

 

There are elements of truth in what you are saying but understand the context of what I said in reply to what he was saying and you'll see what your saying is not entirely different. The other poster was implying that since Holmes beat Ali and Ali retired undefeated then Holmes was lineal, not so. The de facto lineal belt became the one that Ali gave up on retiring as the basically undisputed champion. WBA, which holmes never held. Norton was never a real champion he was given a belt. Again beating the number 1 contender means nothing, he never beat the wba belt holders, he was never a lineal champion. This is why Mike Tyson is viewed so much more favourably (Despite maybe having an inferior record in terms of total wins). Holmes didn't fight the lineal champ until he fought tyson who laid him out.

Holmes nor norton were not in positions to claim the real lineal championship because neither won the wba after ali retired. Frankly ali gave up or vacated the belt so that 2 guys could go for the wba, this was the real title. Holmes never got the real title. The difference was that those guys got the title that the previous lineal champion held or there was a cross over. Holmes dropped his own titles to avoid fights, he never won the wba, that is not a lineal champion.

These guys were the true champions who larry holmes ducked.

He was not respected during his time, the grea white hype, a challneger named cooney got paid more money than he did to fight him and he was the CHALLENEGER!. Larry was not respected, no one liked him and he was constantly booed and dissed up because he was a hero only in his own mind. Garbage jab, gutter fighter, never won a real title. He was practically losing to cooney, had cooney not sacked in the nuts twice he'd be up on all card in the 13th. Larry was only good against gutter boxers who let him stand there and pop off the jab. Once a guy with head movement got in ther ring he got whooped twice then tyson knocked him out. Larry cannot be ranked above ron lyle, hell ron lyle was a great fighter he beat earnir in half the time larry did, where the hell is his accolades? Do you really want me to bring up how larry was knocked down by joke of a fighter? The only good fighters around like pinklon, who was the real champ, larry wanted none of. He vacated titles like riddick bowe to avoid getting whopped. seriously, SNIPES, he got knocked down by snipes, and you want to call this guy great. Shavers hardly lasted against ron lyle, but why isn't lyle in your top 10? Lyle beat better guys and would have creamed larry. Larry would never have knocked down george foreman.

 

For us fans and fighters who watched Larry live during his prime he was highly effective and thought of and still is today. Pinklon was nothing special and is remembered as such. Coming so soon after Ali and having often been his sparring partner he had to box with similiar skills in the shadow of the greatest and boxing scribes at the time often wondered if he would come into his due after his fighting days. Largely now he has and most studying boxing history have him in the upper five of all time. The only glaring short coming Larry had was he didn't box effetively against a moving fighter, often just following until the movement stopped. Snipes was a big enough and undefeated heavy who landed a Sunday best haymaker much like what happened to Quarry against Chuvalo who also threw a once in a lifetime punch. As is often said by those who have boxed, any fighter can be dropped if the right punch is thrown.

The reason for some that the legacies of Johnson and Dempsey have a asterex is that both refused to fight their premier contender (Langford and Wills). For Holmes this was Cooney and he didn't sidestep him. The boxing scribes at the time were about even on who would win this bout. No, Larry didn't avoid another top of the line challenger, Super Greg Page, Pinklon Thomas, and Coetzee were all grade B contenders. Lyle was abit better but again clearly outboxed by Quarry and Young (twice) and all but ten and out against Shavers in the second round of their go.

I beleave Larry set the record for Heavyweight champions by fighting and beating 8 undefeated contenders. Several of these were thought by the boxing scribes of the day to have excellent chances of beating Larry but in each case Holmes won without question.

 

deal:deal. THIS! In A Big Way!