Would jack johnson style work today

But vs every one else(On film), he does look like a gaint faceing the smaller fighters like Burns or even Flynn looks small compare to Johnson.
I have always though Johnson was a pretty big guy compare to most in his era. Yeah Willard is other story. But it seems in most of Johnson's title fights, it seems Johnson was the bigger guy.

 

I wouldn't rank Martin as one of his top 5 victories.

And how how old and how many fights into his career was McVea?

And again, I give little credence to the Jeffries' victory. He was completely cashed. I don't blame Johnson for the fight, and certainly not for his emphatic victory. But in a legacy sense, it was just another passing of the baton fight, and a flimsy one at that, worse than Louis-Marciano, probably closer to Holmes-Ali.

 

That is just the selection of film that has survived.

Do you think that Burns or Flynn wouldn't look like a midget next to Denver Ed Martin or Jim Jeffries?

 

According to boxrec, Primo is an inch shorter at 6'5 1/2".

 

Johnson's greatest victories on paper all came vs the younger, smaller/lighter, and more inexperienced. I have asked two questions to serious historians, and the end results is, my goodness you have a point. The question has two parts.


Question 1 ) Which group of fighters is better. Group A Langford, Jeannette, and MCVey or Group B Choynski, Klondike and Hart.


>>> The answer obviously is group A.


Question 2 ) Then why did Johnson lose to Choynski, Griffin, and Hart, yet beat Langford, Jeannette, and McVey?


I usually get a I'm not sure or excuse type of reply.

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Most say, WOW, I never looked at the dates and times that way, you have a point.

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OK, back to point, since this thread is really not about Johnson's legacy. Would his style work today? No, not in its pristine condition. However, given all the evidence, I believe Johnson would have little problem ad******g his style and gifts toward a successful formula for today's heavies. I still think he would have some troubles with the giant sort of amateur groomed heavies but he would also beat quite a few. Greatness sometimes does transcend.

 

How do you see him doing against Pulev?

 

Klondike beat Johnson when he was 5-0 and Johnson was 3-0. That's an early career loss between two raw amateurs. They fight again and draw when Klondike is 14-2. Johnson knocks Klondike out when Klondike is 17-3-1. So Johnson got better each time he fought him.

Johnson loses to Choynski after Johnson's been fighting for about 3 years and has 11 fights under his belt. Johnson is 23 in 1901. Choynski is a veteran of 32.

The Griffin loss and two draws are over the next year when Johnson is 23 and 24 years old. Griffin was 31 or 32, with a pretty decent record. 2 of his 4 losses are to Jim Jeffries and Denver Ed Martin the champs.

He meets Denver Ed Martin when Martin is 22 and they'd both been fighting about 4 years. Johnson beats him to become world colored heavyweight champion.

Then he fights Sam McVea who is 19 to Johnson's 25 and Johnson wins. The record shows that Johnson was about 25 pounds lighter than McVea but McVea had only had 7 fights up to then and was inexperienced. They fight 8 months later, and 6 months after that with no change in the outcome.

He fights Martin again and wins in 1904, but then loses to Hart in 1905. Hart is 29 to Johnson's 27. Looks like an even match age, size, and experience-wise.

This next one is a little weird. Joe Jeannette first faces Johnson when Joe's 26 but it looks like he'd only been fighting a year with three bouts. They fought two more times about six months later, after Jeannette has had 8 more fights, and Jeannette wins one of them by disqualification. They fight 4 more times the next year and Johnson wins 3 and draws the last. It appears Johnson had a 20 pound edge.

He fights Langford in 1906 outweighing him by 29 pounds. Langford is 23 and Johnson is 28. Langford is far more active than Johnson and it looks like they'd had a similar number of fights by the time they met.

 

I think a lot of guys would have their hands full with Pulev, Johnson included. He's big, strong, quick fisted, light on his feet with a good set of whiskers and fundamentally sound. He also has shown today that he can adjust. I wouldn't hold it against him that the fight with Thompson was a bit of a stinker. They usually are against giant, cagey southpaws who hold a trump card in power (remind me when Johnson fought one of those?).

Johnson would not out-grapple Pulev because a) guys like Randy Neumann are not going to allow it and b) Pulev is a very strong dude from what I hear.

I think Johnson's quickness and timing would be his best assets but I don't think he could hurt Pulev. If Pulev decides to feel the same way he is going to attack much more with his 4 and 5 punch combo's something I don't remember film of Johnson defending.

I certainly want to pick Johnson, but that would assume a lot adjustments on his part... So, who the **** knows?

 

You don't see Pulev's lack of inside game being a problem?

 

I don't think his style would have worked in the 1930s. Joe Louis, Max Schmeling, and Max Baer would have destroyed him.

 

These refs today break up the inside stuff so quickly I don't think it would be a huge factor. Pulev was also good at moving to the side when in close so I don't think Johnson's uppercut would be a huge factor. I wouldn't say Pulev has a bad inside game, just that he nullifies that arena with his strength in order to work from mid and long range. We will see as he develops.

If you are looking for giants who Johnson would whip like redheaded stepchild, David Price is an obvious choice, Dimentrenko also, and Wilder.

 

He was actualy still clowning the teir of fighteres just beneath them, as an overweight pensioner.

I doubt that they would have had an easy time with him.