Would Jimmy Bivins be P4P #1 Today ?

That comparison doesn’t work. Usyk and Bivins are comparable in size and both competed at heavyweight. Swapping opponents between two heavyweights isn’t the same as asking a flyweight to fight someone in a completely different weight class.

If someone claims Bivins would be elite today, then it’s fair to ask how he performs against modern heavyweights and cruiserweights the way Usyk has.

 

Bang on!

 

The idea of comparing resumes as a basis for ranking fighters from different eras on a P4P basis does not resound with me. The names are different, the fighters are different, and their weights are usually different, so they have minimal value as a basis for comparison. Just thought I'd take this thread as an opportunity to finally sound off on something that has been sticking in my craw for a long time. To me the sight/gut test is best. Naturally the evaluators' bias about the quality of fighters in different eras, conditioning, boxing styles, and training techniques are going to affect their conclusions, but that's just the way it is. Each one of us has their own comfortable niche which determines our judgment on the issue.

 

If you want to believe that it's harder to be above Usyk than Robinson P4P then go ahead mate.

 

Incorrect. Usyk is 6" taller and c.40-45lbs heavier. That's a huge difference.

Bivins is comparable in size to SMW titlest Christian Mbilli, they're about the same height and fight night weight.

No one would suggest Usyk and Mbili are comparable in size because, well, because it would be ridiculous to do so.

 

Bivins was a ****ing career light-heavyweight

 

Bivins contested more bouts at HW than LHW, but he certainly isn't anything like "comparable in size" to Usyk.

At CW, the 6ft 3ins Usyk’s reported fight night weights range from 207-211. So, his career weights roughly range from 207-227lbs.

The 5ft 9ins Bivins debuted at 154lbs, but it’s fairer to base his low on the 160lbs he weighed when he first proved himself to be an elite fighter (when he beat Charley Burley). So, his world level career weights range roughly from 160lbs-186lbs.

There is a c.50lbs discrepancy between these lows and c.40lbs between their highs, in favour of the much, much bigger Usyk.

A prime Bivins, taken as he was from the mid 40's, would likely fight at SMW today.

 

The problem is the question implies Bivins would have to move up in weight so there is a H2H element to him fighting the best fighters of today.

Now discussing resumes in there time (which I think is a better way to compare most the time) gets conflicted with this.

 

Bivins world level weights ranged from around 160-186lbs.

With day before fight weigh ins and modern approach to dehydration and rehydration, that would likely mean he'd begin at either WW or LMW and end at either SMW or LHW.

He's pretty similar in size to Canelo, perhaps just a touch bigger naturally.

 

Exactly as I said and always seem to have to reiterate every time these type of scenarios get Threaded... Damn near All of the Men of Yesteryear would, like 'todays' men of similar stature i.e a 5'9" man, fights generally from LW - Welter, whereas in the past, (already Sealed & Done, which speaks volumes), would have been MWs & L-HWs.

I don't understand why some people refuse to understand that and they just roll into Weight Division vs Weight Division, where is doesn't equate.

example in the Reverse, a Bhop, RJJ and a Carl Froch would have been L-HWs cum HWs, just imagine who they would have had to fight... and think, hmmn, maybe, just maybe that could very well change a lot!!!

 

Those guys would be MWs and LHWs because todays boxing is built around being undefeated and avoiding losses. Not because they could not replicate the careers they had where this wasn't neccessary. Or because they are somehow H2H inferior.

Today if a boxer can make a lower weight class and dominate they go there. In Bivins time everyone was trying to be a HW if it was possible.

 

NO, they wouldn't even think on those terms,

you don't live in 'past or present' time and operate outside of the Zeitgeist, yesterday's 180lb men either side of 5'9" started at ww, MW and finished at L-HW, because that was the way it was done, you fought near or close to your walk around weight, because that's how it was done and fight SCHEDUALS Demanded it, little to no time to cut huge weights like they do today...

those fighters fighting today WILL DO exactly like damn near everyone else at 5'9" and fight at LW cum WW, because that's just how it's done, because of less busy & active fight schedules with Time Allowances to operate healthfully, safely and effectively - 3-5 months or more to shift 20-30 lbs is a breeze to fit healthy athletes.

the Zeitgeist for this was capitalised on regularly to becoming the norm by the late 70s and certainly by the 1980s.

 

I didn't mean necessarily fighting Uysk but other top fighters H2H.

No doubt Uysk is much bigger than Bivins so Bivins would have to be around 205-215 pounds to fight Uysk since the heavyweight limit has increased.

 

re reading your post that is exactly what I said, I thought you were suggesting MW & L-HWs then would be the same today, because they what to keep O's... which of course is not at all the reason they'd be fighting in lighter divisions today as I stated and we appear to agree on giving you last sentence there above.

 

Your wrong. Resumes provide so so much info. Plenty of film of Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles. Both men with very different styles and Bivins beat both. Both men way better than anyone Usyk beat. Im talking WAY better as in not even close to the caliber Usyk beat. That tells me so so much. I dont even understand where your coming from at this point.
Unlike you I dont have a horse in this race. Neither fighter really matters to me. Im just making a point that Resumes matter. There's no one on Usyks Resumes so we really dont know how he would fair against proven greats. All this talk on here about him beating all these proven all time greats is a joke to me when he doesn't have one single great fighter on his resume. So many people are in awe that he beat a few SHW SO WHAT. Means nothing to me and your taking it personally because your a big Usyk fan. That's your hang up. Relax! Now I have nothing more to say. Like beating a dead horse already.