Would Joe Frazier Size Have Hindered Him, If He'd Come Along After The 1980s?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, May 13, 2024.



  1. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    Tyson was more proven against modern big men. Guys like Frank Bruno and Bonecrusher Smith and Razor Ruddock would fit right in with today's heavyweights. Tyson proved he had the speed, power and chin to compete
     
  2. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    He might do pretty well in the early 80s due to matching up well against Holmes. Not saying he wins.

    Tyson would have him for breakfast.

    He’d have another window to do well if he got a fight with Holyfield. Not saying he wins.

    Might do well against Bowe because Bowe got hit. Not saying Frazier wins.

    Pretty much toast by the time Lewis became the man and the Kbros, Fury, and Joshua would present similar problems.
     
  3. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    Yes i would have to agree. Lewis is a bad style match for him as is Vitali. Not sure about Wlad. Wlad may clinch his way to a win but as we saw vs Brewster, he could be vulnerable.

    I do think Frazier beats Joshua.
     
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  4. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Frazier would have no chance against Wlad during his reign. Southpaws and left hookers such as Peter, Brewster, Chagaev, Iggy, Povetkin, Haye, and Jennings couldn't do much to him. He wouldn't be able to take Klitschko's power and he'd wear down in clinches. He might have a chance against the younger version.

    I don't think he'd beat Joshua either. Ruiz was massive and had ro walk through hell to get that victory. Joshua is good enough to circle the left and beat him.
     
  5. Ney

    Ney Well-Known Member Full Member

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    “Vastly over-rated” does not even scratch the surface of how over-estimated Vitali is. To hear him described as superior to Frazier in all ways sans heart…nothing shocks me any more.

    It’s like this entire forum doesn’t know Usyk is currently World’s Heavyweight Champion, a Cruiser without a fifth of Frazier’s proven ability.
     
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  6. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I’d give Frazier 50/50 odds against a prime Evander. He’d beat Michael Moorer and likely takes a decision over a comeback Foreman. Stops an old Holmes. Beats contenders like Norris, Damiani, Mason, Bruno, Botha etc. pre-prison I’d favor Tyson. Post prison I’d favor Frazier. Bowe and Lewis I’d make favorites over him
     
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  7. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    Here's the thing with Joshua: it was a lot easier for him to hit Ruiz than a bobbing weaving Frazier. If Joshua doesn't badly hurt Frazier early, and Frazier makes him miss, Joshua could get tired. If Frazier is allowed to work the body, how would Joshua handle it? He hasn't faced big body punchers and certainly no one in the league of Frazier.

    Unless Joshua decides to be as physical and aggressive as Foreman, he is going to struggle. Could be do what George did, push and shove Joe, block most of his left hooks and move forward and walk him down? Maybe but i don't think its his style. I could be wrong of course.
     
  8. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    my guess is Futch would have Frazier clean out at cruiser first, then carefully match him with heavies. I think he beats Evander to be honest. Holyfield isn't fast enough to escape him and Holy liked slugging it out. I don't think that works with Frazier. Frazier IMO would outwork him.

    Agreed that he beats Norris, Damiani, Mason, Bruno, Botha etc. Add Ruddock and Briggs to that list. Lewis is a bad bad style match up for him. I still give him an outside chance as Lewis was staggered by a Briggs left. Generally, however, Lewis handled left hookers quite competently.

    I think if he turned pro around 1990, he would peak around 94-97. I could see Tua blasting him out. Frazier is a much better fighter than Dave but i wonder if he could handle the power that Tua had at short range.
     
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  9. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    I can't see Joshua getting tired against Frazier. Frazier wasn't even that hard to hit and missing him isn't like fighting a 240+ pounder which he's comfortable doing.
     
  10. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    It depends if the ref allows body work. I don't think Joshua has faced a shorter fast fighter who can work the body. Some refs will not allow body work but if they do, i can see it being an issue.
     
  11. Hotep Kemba

    Hotep Kemba Member Full Member

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    When did Joe Frazier prove his ability to beat elite super heavyweights? He didn't. In fact the largest opponent he ever fought, who would be the smallest Heavyweight today in Foreman unceremoniously beat the **** out of him. You're trying to argue that resume is the same thing as H2H ability, and using that to argue that Frazier would be successful without addressing any in-ring issues that people are bringing up.

    It's not about resume or ATG standing, it's about attributes and match ups. Usyk is an extremely mobile, 6'3 220lbs man with ATG boxing ability and ATG stamina in a division of EXTREMELY immobile men with all time bad boxing ability and mediocre stamina. He was tailor made to be ultra-competitive in this era.

    Joe Frazier on the other hand is a vastly inferior boxer (and I mean boxer in a style sense not an All Time sense), with inferior defence who depends on out lasting and KO'ing his opponents. Of him, Foreman and Ali he's probably the worst you could transport to this era.

    Like I said, they're certain attributes that lend themselves to moving up in weight classes. Gritty attrition punchers that take a punch to throw a punch are on the absolute bottom of that list.
     
  12. Barrf

    Barrf Well-Known Member Full Member

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    If he was able/willing to play the dehydration game, he might be able to make LHW. I figure he could drop to 195 or so just by getting real lean, and plenty of guys dehydrate down 20lbs for weigh-in. At LHW, look out Russia, USA is sending in our man to take those titles back.
     
  13. Barrf

    Barrf Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Only if he fights at HW. Even at cruiser, he's immediately my favorite to clean out the division, to say nothing of the LHW division if he can make it. He might be the best to transport to this era -- it's just not going to be at heavyweight.
     
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  14. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    All good points. I’d personally love to see Frazier vs Holyfield when they were both prime and undefeated. That would be an absolute war. Non stop punches and action. I can see Frazier winning a decision but I wouldn’t count out Evander. Either way it would be one of the best fights of all time
     
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  15. USFBulls727

    USFBulls727 Active Member Full Member

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    Imagine if the Heavyweight crown had never been fractured into 3 or 4 different belts, that it was just one all along. Obviously Mike is that guy heading into the 90s.

    Any skeptics see a peak Frazier becoming THE Heavyweight Champion from this point on, assuming he has no problems climbing the ladder in the late 80s/early 90s? There certainly seemed to be a window around that time. Tyson looked like crap vs. Douglas...no head movement or combination punching. Douglas was flabby, and appeared to sit out the count vs. Holyfield. Holyfield-Frazier is an interesting style match-up.

    Is there not a window for Frazier to rule the division for a fight or two around this time? Curious where people think the window realistically closes for Joe exactly in a one belt scenario? Bowe? Lewis? The combination of size, talent, and power from at least one of those two would be too much IMO.

    As it was though, considering some of the guys who held belts from '90 onward...Bentt, Damiani, Hide, etc...Frazier certainly would have been good enough to grab A belt after the 80s, and maybe making a at least a couple of defenses if the pieces fell into place properly.

    Of the Heavyweight belt holders post-1990, imagine how many would have never been champion if only one belt was available. Seems like too many to even begin to list. The alphabet groups are such damn stains on the sport.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2024
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