Would John Ruiz have been a champion without Don King

I don't consider him the champion, but holding a major belt makes you a champion imo, and it does actually make you a champion in the eyes of commission's ect.

 

More childish talk.

 

Yes, it does.

That's the be all and end all.
They might not have ever been number 1 but he was an actual champion and was recognised by the WBA (a major organisation who was roughly 45 years old at the time) as a champ.

Deal with it. So I repeat

 

Then by your criteria you are correct and within your bounds. I see it unfortunately as the troll sees it...but his arrogance, lack of balanced perspective and generally cantankerous demeanor have left me unwilling to discuss or name him in the future I believe.

 

Lewis was the lineal champion until he retired. So I see him as the definite top guy.. But Ruiz was the world heavyweight champ as recognized by the WBA. As crap as he was he a heavyweight champion by a boxing body, no if s no buts.

 

Wrong. Please read the opening post. If the child had stated correctly that Ruiz was a belt holder/paper title claimant I would have had no disagreement. Instead he incorrectly termed Ruiz World champion which he never was. Holy lost his world title to Moorer who lost it to Foreman who lost it to Briggs and so forth. Ruiz could never be worlds champion as other fighters had that title and completely rightfully so. The paper title Ruiz had was not worth the toilet paper it was scratched upon.

 

I have. There was nothing wrong.

I agreed to Philly he was a belt holder. So another lie.

Correct is only correct in your mind. Ruiz was a HW champion. WBA recognised, officially recognised by commissions and Ring. He just wasn't lineal or number 1.

The commission has deemed Ruiz a HW champion, as has the WBA (again, a major organisation). That's a champion.
Therefore, what you say means nothing. Again.

All correct, but your confused.

There's more than one version of the HW title. There has been for decades, get used to it.

WBA > Your opinion.


I can see why you like guys like Dempsey and Marciano. You have a lot of heart.

 

Ruiz was a master operator, a top notch cutie and spoiler.

Sorry if you folks don't have the eyeballs to appreciate it.

In a few more decades, he will be recognized for this greatness.

 

He was an average fighter with a lot of heart and a genius promoter who tried to market him to Puerto Ricans. But even die hard Puerto Rican boxing fans saw through it and knew he was a fraud.

 

He's still classed as a heavyweight champion, sometime s the so called lineal champ is not the best man. Lewis held a alphabet title when Briggs was classed as the lineal. But Lennox was still introduced in the ring has the WBC champ. Does not having the lineal belt mean no one believed Lennox was not a champ?

 

I tend to agree with Houdini - that there can only be one "real" world champion at a time. The lineal concept has its faults and can be exasperating to sit through - the long layoffs of Dempsey, Braddock, Louis (due to the war), Ali, and Fury, as well as the less than stellar second reign of Foreman - but they're the best way to recognize the true world champion, worthy or not. In my opinion.

I regard the WBA and the rest as organizational titles. I think if we legitimize them we further the delegitimization of boxing. I choose not to look at their belt holders as legitimate world champions unless they also hold the lineal belt. The organizations have ruined their credibility with me over the decades because of their whims and crazy rulings. They really got bad around 1978, but made questionable decisions before that. IMO, again, if we're going to recognize, say, all WBA heavyweight champions as legitimate world heavyweight champions, then Muhammad Ali is a four-time champion. And I don't hear people saying that.

So while I disagree with George's take on this issue, I'll never insult him or any other poster over a difference of opinion. George is a great poster and I really respect his dedication to learning about deep boxing history at such a young age.

Would Ruiz have won an organizational belt without Don King? Maybe, maybe not. But Don King, dating back to the 70's, got his heavyweights onto bigger cards and got them noticed. As much as I blame him - and he's not the only one - for hurting boxing, he did a good job getting his fighters onto bigger stages.

 

I think an even more important question is will he be inducted into the IBHOF which sadly I think he will, just on the merit of being the first Latino heavyweight champion, even though Lennox Lewis was the rightful lineal champion at the time.

 

Are you kidding? He’s the second best heavyweight champ named Ruiz of all time.

 

I seriously doubt he'll ever get in the HOF his career is pretty forgettable. Not even Latinos brought into him.

 

I hope he doesn't either.