Would Kenny Norton Have Maybe Troubled Fury?

What noteworthy opponents has Usyk dropped at Heavyweight apart from Fury ? Dubois quit after a jab and went down on his own accord.

 

No. Any further comments on my part would be extraneous.

 

Anything can happen and in truth Ken Norton was a very good fighter. But I just have doubts about him overcoming the enormous physical advantage of fury

 

Young, Ali, were very durable fighters Young was only stopped legitimately once by Shavers very early in his career and apart from that was never stopped again apart from on a cut by Cooney past his prime. Ali needs no introduction one of the toughest fighters of all time end of.

You make it sound like not dropping those fighters is a detriment to Norton it's not its just they're very durable fighters and Young especially was very hard to hit clean.

 

So now you're backpedalling ? So it's ok for you to bring up Norton when he's green but not Fury ? Sounds like excuses to me and a biased one sided view. And just for your information the immense struggle and knockdown vs Pajkic, Fury had 16 professional fights at the time is that irrelevant aswell ? Yeah I thought so.

All this is pointless just judge the fighters at their best and how stylistically they match up and based on styles Norton should match up well against Fury.

 

It's not a detriment to Norton by any meals, but the fact remains he didn't drop anyone on Fury's level, or even the level below him.

 

But you could also say Holmes and Ali were a level above Fury or atleast much more proven at world level.

The top fighters Norton fought in the 70s were Holmes, Foreman, Ali, Young, and doing quick maths they had well over 200 fights combined and were only stopped 4 times in total plus 3 of them were ATGs. And whilst I understand what you're saying you have to take into account the fighters above are extremely durable.

Yeah Norton is not a concussive hitter but he had good power in his right hand and 3 of the fighters who have dropped Fury have been the same height as Norton 6'3 Usyk, Pajkic, Cunningham. And some might say Fury has more difficulty vs the smaller skillful Heavyweights.

 

And if Dubois didn't quit what do you think would've happened?

This obviously isn't a fair comparison considering Usyk's had 6 fights at Heavy and 4 of them against top competition, while Norton's had 50 fights.
Even so, Usyk's KD of Fury is far far bigger than any knock down on Norton's ledger. Norton to my knowledge, hasn't had a single knockdown over a top ten opponent.

I can see the reasoning for Norton giving Fury some trouble even if I disagree. Norton beating Fury is a huge stretch, and quite frankly absurd. Norton outperforming Usyk though is ****ing bonkers, on a completely different level, which I can only assume stems from old timers nostalgia.

 

Finishing up my homework, then going to work but will address later. Excellent debate so far.

 

Furys feinting and being herky jerky, this isn't effective head movement lol wtf, he wasn't bobbing and weaving the actual shots, he stepped back almost everytime Wilder threw his right. What are u watching ? All you have to do is look at Wilder throwing his right and watch Furys reaction. He wasn't using much head movement in this fight, especially not anywhere near usual.

 

It was your pal Flores who started to bring up Cunningham et al. Two can play at that game, especially when Norton's devastation at the hands of a no-name brand stick man (who probably wouldn't even fight at cruiser nowadays) is far far worse than Fury's shortcomings. Fact is that there's a difference between 8 fights and 17. I assume that you are smart enough to work this out.

"Immense struggle"

There's a big difference here.

Norton got the drool slapped out of him by a 188lb stick man and got knocked out.

Fury got dumped on his ass by a 237lb fighter that he went on to KO in 3 rounds flat. I have no problem with the comparison. Sounds to me that you have a one sided and biased view even trying to draw an equivalency. Knocking out an undefeated fighter in 3 is a fail now?

Here's the fight for anybody wanting to see the "immense struggle" for themselves:

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Absolutely which is why I think Fury would flatten Norton without too much anguish. He's better at range, he's better close up, he's tougher, he's bigger and hits harder. Sorry Ken.

 

Of course it's effective movement. It just doesn't suit your agenda, which is not my problem. Fury's movement is unpredictible and awkward and has had better fighters than Norton in difficulties.

 

Likewise buddy I'm probably going to reply 1 or 2 more times then dip I made it a rule not to get into long debates anymore.

 

I said head movement not movement in general. All Fury did was take a step back to avoid an actual punch. You're shifting the goal post, you said Fury used plenty of head movement in that first round, obviously not on rewatch. Fury using a bunch of feints while pressing Norton with the jab isn’t throwing him off his game, Fury isn't that good in the pocket either

Who has he beat up on the inside besides Wilder who can only throw a right hand ? Otto Wallin ?

 

Was maddeningly ranting swag. Sorry. Will die on some hills here anyway though.

When I said better, it doesn't necessarily means he has harder one-punch knockout chance than Usyk, but that he has style, shot-selection, athleticism and offensive explosiveness (none of which Usyk is lacking in) to top what the Cat pulled off. He is better at working off the body jab, at working up and down, and was more front-foot orientated through his career with more of a boxer-puncher or awkward counterpuncher stylistics, rather than outboxer.

All of the guys you mentioned were either extremely tough, had great defensive capabilities, or both, on top of Kenny sliding when in the ring against Holmes.

Quarry was ranked #5 when they fought, and would go on to stop Zanon in 9th, despite trailing on the scorecards, so not a bad end. Similarly you can point at the fact that he retired soon after losing to Norton as Kenny finally pushing him out of contention. Sure, he was damaged good at that point, but Jerry was notoriously too tough for his own good, and could hang in there with the biggest and hardest of punchers (though in his typical hot-and-cold fashion could get dropped by Al Jones and George Chuvalo.) The way Norton was beating on him that night, he would have hit the deck, and he would have hit it badly. The referee saved him whatever health he had at that point.

Young was ranked #2 when they fought, he was on the best streak of his career, beating Ron Lyle and Clancy Foreman beforehand. It was a fantastic, underrated win for Norton against an extremely cagey defensive wizard. Him actually rocking Jimmy with that left hook/hookercut was more than a lot of fighters could manage.

Holmes got dropped by Shavers, Weavers, sure, but he could also 12-0 Earnie and stand on his feet against and beat killer punchers like Cooney or Witherspoon, and Tim was damn educated to boot.

Ali is Ali. Bringing up inability to drop post-exile Muhammad as some sort of failure is extremely unfair. It's the man who got into the ring with Foster, Lyle, Foreman, Shavers, and beforehand with Liston and Williams, and that's just naming the biggest crackers without mentioning the good, hard-hitting opponents he had on his resume.

Blaming Norton for not dropping or denting Foreman is just petty. Generally speaking, most of the examples were either extremely tricky or tough customers. Fury was dropped and troubled by less.