Would Marciano have lost to Schmeling, or had to split the glove against Cooper?

Good day fans,

Let's talk some more about our favorite topic: Rocky Marciano, the only unbeaten heavyweight champ.

In terms of accomplishment, my top three, easily, head and shoulders are:

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Marciano

Most would not argue the first two, but many try to knock down the Rock. There is simply no faulting his actual accomplishments, but some are uncomfortable with the idea of "unbeaten," and others don't like him for other, less noble reasons that we all know and don't have to say.

I say that whereas he is number three, he even has some comparative advantage over Louis and Ali.

Louis lost to Max Schmeling, a former champ who, at the time, had no great reputation, and was thought to be washed up. Would the Rock really have come in under-trained and been counter-punched into defeat?

As for Ali, Henry Cooper knocked him nearly silly with the hook, and Ali's manger, Angelo Dundee, openly admits to opening up an existing split to buy him time. In his own words, he does not know what would have happened had they not bought Ali the extra time. Would Marciano have been knocked nearly silly a mediocre fringe contender of 185 pounds?

Let's talk.

 

This is exactly right. And the excuses start.

According to some. Officially he won, no footage exists, and its not like he was knocked over the ropes (Clay) or had his jaw broken (Louis), so we don't really know. He won with a caveat attached to it, and that is fair enough.

Are you answering "yes," then? Please commit if you are.

 

Sure.

A) That is not what I asked, and in fact, has nothing to do with what I asked.

B) Is because Marciano started boxing very late and left a bit early.

Louis has a prime loss to a fighter thought at the time to be shot, and Ali possibly should have a lost to a fringe guy, except for acknowledged cheating. Do you think that Marciano would have had his jaw broken, or been knocked silly over the ropes?

If so, just say so.

 

Some fair points, but it should be noted that both were victims of character flaws. Joe trained for the Schmeling fight mostly by playing golf because he thought he was, in his own words, "hot ****." Ali was showboating. Marciano never showed either of these kinds of flaws.

As for whether Moore would have knocked Ali down, if Cooper and Doug Jones could do it, I don't see why an ATG couldn't. Ali fought him, but of course that was seven years later than the Marciano fight, in Moore's penultimate fight, his last being a farce against a TV wrestler (the million dollar man's dad).

As to whether he needed the time: not at all speculative. If his trainer risked a DQ, then yes, he needed the time. He might have gone on to win without it, but there is no doubt, none whatsoever, that he was seriously hurt. To put it very bluntly, this SHOULD have been a DQ loss, and is as much a robbery as any fight ever was.

 

And I am very glad that they corrected those mistakes. That is why they are number 1 and 2 on my list, or, I might even say co-number 1.

All I am saying is that Marciano deserves a lot more respect than he gets because he never went down some of these rabbit holes. There is almost literally a new thread every day about Rock's opponents. And yet every great has something that you can nitpick about him. Marciano deserves the credit of never having that loss or near catastrophic loss in his first 49 fights. Maybe some decisions that could have gone either way (although I understand that the Lastarza match was not nearly the close fight it is made to be) but he never had his jaw broken or got knocked over the ropes and had to have his trainer come up with trickerations to save him.

Never lost to inferior guys like Johnson, Dempsey, Lewis, Klitscko or Tyson. Never declined to fight black fighters like Jeffries, Dempsey, or even Johnson or Louis throughout most of their reigns. Never cheated by using oinment on the gloves like Liston, or got embarrassingly starched like Patterson or Liston. Never caught in a drug scandal like Holyfield. Never openly ducked fighters like Holmes, Patterson, or Bowe.

The worst thing that anyone can say about him is that he never fought Nino Valdez, a guy who closed with 18 defeats, but instead fought the guy who beat him twice.

Every fighter should be so brave, dedicated, and serious in that ring.