Would Marciano have lost to Schmeling, or had to split the glove against Cooper?

True but the guy was 22 years old and had a weakness brutally and repeatedly pointed out to him by Max's right hand. He as you mentioned was also under trained. He beat some good fighters before but Joe wasn't prime until he got beat. He corrected the flaws. Joe was a good fighter before and that loss made him a great one.

 

I can't see Cooper bothering Marciano too much.

Schmeling is another kettle of fish entirely. He had genuine world class ability and could punch hard. However, going by the Baer fight, he liked a head on approach a little too much for taking on a sledgehammer like Marciano. I fancy that Schmeling might hold his own early but get worn out down the stretch. He'd have a better chance counterpunching, imho.

 

How blatantly biased can you be?
Louis was not prime.
The split glove, [actually some stitching had come away around the base of the thumb] caused a delay of no more than 10 seconds.
Anyone can have their jaw broken,Liston,Shavers,K Finnegan,Abraham what does that signify?
Marciano ever hit on the chin by a prime 212lbs ranked heavyweight?
Fan boy agenda driven post that is ludicrously ridiculous in its lack of objectivity and disregard of facts.
Jones never dropped Ali .
Many felt Lastarza was robbed in their first fight,read the reports.
Marciano was in danger of being stopped by average punching lightheavyweight journeyman Lowry,again read the report.
He was in danger of being stopped on cuts by novice journeyman Keene Simmons read the report !
Marciano's manager was the matchmaker for MSG it was 3 years before he fought a live body!
Marciano feasted on older ,past prime fighters.
Walcott 38
Moore 38/40
Louis 36
Charles 33 with a lot of mileage on his clock
Seems with the vacancy left by Reznick's departure you've stepped up to the plate and filled the Rockista vacuum!lol

 

The glove wasn't changed.

 

Even after the split? Even after Dundee? Then what are we talking about here?

 

We are responding to a "Rockista " fan-boy,each in our own way.
The glove was not changed.

 

Fair enough.

 

Not directed at me, but just have to point out that you're not being entirely truthful. This is from your opening post:

"1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Marciano

Most would not argue the first two, but many try to knock down the Rock. There is simply no faulting his actual accomplishments, but some are uncomfortable with the idea of "unbeaten," and others don't like him for other, less noble reasons that we all know and don't have to say.

I say that whereas he is number three, he even has some comparative advantage over Louis and Ali."

This makes it quite clear that you ask the question to highlight the fact you see him as underrated, often for "less than noble reasons".

Seamus's answer therefore cuts to the point. Yes, Rocky would be a favored to beat Schmeling and not to have any real problems with Cooper. But the fact that he's still some way behind Louis and Ali according to most is because he was active at elite level for such a relatively short period, not because of spite. Had he, like Ali, taken on ranked opposition for a period over 20 years instead of 4 there would quite likely be some marks on his record.

So the answer to the nominal thread question is that Rocky would probably beat Schmeling and stop Cooper without being badly hurt by him. The answer to what you're really trying to say with this thread is that Rocky isn't more highly ranked because his time on the top was relatively short and he therefore never amassed anything close to the achievements Ali and Louis did. An off the cuff estimate is they each had three to four times as many wins in title fights and over ranked opposition. That is a major difference.

 

Louis was hardly a novice was he when he lost? He was 25 fights in to his career, could you see Marciano getting knocked out by the German at that point in his career?

 

A grounded post that tells it like it is!

 

u

I said he wasn't prime, I never used the word novice.
I can see Marciano losing to Schmeling in his 25th fight why not ?
At that stage he was fighting green string bean Vingo16-0-1, had got a very unpopular decision over Lowry a couple of months earlier in a fight the press said he was in danger of being ko'd in,and a couple of months later he squeeked by Lastarza when many felt Rollie was robbed!

Would either of them troubled Louis?
So yes, if lightheavyweight journeyman ,soft punching[31%,] Lowry could get Marciano on ***** street, why couldn't the 30 years old Schmeling who was on a roll having ko'd Hamas ,Nuesel and beaten Uzcudun do so?

 

The split glove thing is partly a myth. At most ten seconds was added to the round, not minutes. More serious then is that Dundee gave Ali smelling salts, which apparently was illegal in Britain. Don't know if it should have been grounds for a DQ. The strange thing is that it happened in clear view of everyone, but nothing was made of it at the time. Instead the "at lest a minute added" myth sprang into life.

 

Yeah, what is with all the Rocky whining nowadays?

He is to be made into this great technician, which is about as true as saying Ali was an ATG puncher or that Patterson had an ATG chin; Wilder's relative success is supposed to be proof that 9 inches shorter and 35 lbs lighter Rocky would do as well (not saying it's necissarily wrong, just that using Wilder as a "proof" seems a bit desperate); and now this: Rocky being ranked some distance below Ali and Louis by most apparently doesn't have to do with their vastly superior number of quality wins but with "less noble reasons" (Rocky being white?).

Jesus.