Would Mike Tyson have become the greatest heavyweight of all time without prison and his demons?

Agreed, but assuming Tyson stayed focused and beat Douglas, he only would of needed 2 or 3 more years after that and a few more big scalps in Holyfield, old Foreman and possibly Bowe or Lewis, that is all.

 

The Tyson that fought Ruddock was not as good as the Rooney Tyson, especially in terms of defense.

 

Holyfield was just at the beginning of his steroid cycle and not that big yet. He also wasn't that match honed yet, and Tyson has a great chance of KOing him.
Lewis was also pretty raw at that point, thus vulnerable to being KOd by Tyson.
Bowe was the only one that was the conplete deal by that point, and that could have posed the biggest threat to Tyson.

 

It's not a bridge too far for a prime Tyson.

 

Maybe not, but that's the actual real Tyson, the one that was around at the time in reality, the only one we can make assessments off.

 

What round? Tyson won about 2 rounds against Douglas and took heavy punishment virtually every stanza. I don't recall Tyson being on the verge of a knockout.

 

I'm not sure exactly the rounds but it was at the back end of the fight, the fight was panning out just like the end of the Douglas bout, him getting backed up to the ropes and taking punishment.

Why do you think he was blatantly fouling, he was doing so out of desperation, if only Ruddock put something together it could have been different.

The point is, he had more than his hands full with Ruddock, I believe the likes of Holyfield, Lewis & Bowe would have beaten him at that point.

 

Just to clarify myself, I don’t think Tyson was in any substantive decline in terms of ‘em being past prime by 1990 - but even so, for the reasons I already gave, I wouldn’t have projected for too many more years before he actually hit a naturally occurring decline.

 

WB, you make that sound too easy - far easier than it actually would’ve been - and Mike didn’t get past Douglas after all - and the loss to James was all about it, if at all, a lack of focus. IF Mike was all that he was touted to be, even running at 8 or 9/10 of himself, Douglas still should’ve been easy meat.

 

This was a hypothetical situation that was proposed in this thread, which assumed Tyson stayed just as motivated and with the Catskill team. That means Tyson would of been just as good, if not better.

 

You and I both know that this sport is not just about physical ability, but also about state of mind. Tyson was not there mentally for Douglas.

 

If Tyson had stayed focused stayed on the straight and narrow then I think he could’ve had a shout with a few others as the greatest.
He was a force of nature.

 

WB - If he was so insufficiently there mentally, he would’ve folded much sooner and he wouldn’t have managed the KD in round 8.

And you’re very correct, the sport is also very much about state of mind - which doesn’t actually present as a defence for Mike - rather, it’s an indictment.

Do you believe that Michael Spinks was there mentality against Tyson? Because if you want to realistically value Mike’s worth prior to Douglas, then you should be accounting for that (include deficiencies in other opposition) in due balance also.

And even if Mike got past Douglas - running those names off as if they would topple like dominoes in the face of Mike is quite an extrapolation and modification to his actual record.

 

Bunk point.

Spinks wasn't there mentally because he knew he stood zero chance of winning. He was terrified.

Tyson's mental state was the complete opposite against Buster. He thought he could run through him easily so didn't not take the challenge seriously.

 

And how do you know that's the case for certain, it's all good and well going along with the narrative now but can you say you know it's fact?