Would modern Deontay Wilder be too small for the 80s/90s HW divison?

I would qualify that by saying application of proper technique,can maximise what was already there.imo
eg Tommy Hearns was not a puncher as an amateur, his latent power was developed by the proper application of several factors,weight distribution,hip and shoulder rotation , leverage, and timing.
imo If your statement was correct ,and technique alone could create a puncher , the best trainers would be in incessant demand to explain and demonstrate that technique with the aim of producing the power that hitherto a boxer did not possess.Anyone have better technique than Willie Pep,Tommy Loughran,Joey Maxim?
All punched correctly none were bangers.
ps I enjoy your posts.

 

1-plenty of things in nature you can just be "born with". I was the best artist in my class at 6 with absolutely no training and even got paid to do portraits or drawings of their favorite cartoons. Its not a coincidence my mom and several of my relatives are good artists too.

2-in youre sword/foreman/marciano analogy, you claim foreman having such big hands means the force behind his shots gets spread out and dissipates compared to rockys who had small hands but big strong legs. That foreman has to punch harder to achieve the same result. If you mean in terms of pin point accuracy, then yes its true. But in terms of sheer force? Not really, force is mass x speed and foreman was not only taller and bigger, he had about 30-40 lbs over marciano even when he was younger. Marciano wasnt a speed demon either, so i dont get how you came to the conclusion foreman would have to hit even harder to get the same result and even things out.

 

Bottom line.

 

Yeah, there are tons of examples. My favorite analogy is that it's like being able to throw a very hard fastball.

 

I think that when it comes to Wilder he is a giant in some dimensions and average to smaller in others but n ever way he is a large man sans body fat he naturally is a very lean athletic man with freaky tendon strength.....the mistake that was IMO being made with him was to try to put muscle on him to compete with the heavier men which for an athlete like him does not equate strength of note. But when you look at his frame it is like Bob Foster in design long limbed and lean and not meant for weight gain perhaps that is his genetic trait. Having said that fighters that use weights and bulk up may have weight on him but in lean muscle he is equally as big naturally give or take a few lbs he simply does not carry fat or retain unnecessary muscle of any kind for anything and has alot of the physical traits of the great Kenyan runners whose bodies are adapted for endurance and strength for the type of endurance their people were adapted for they carry next to no extra fat their bodies are unusually resilient to heat and they have long limbs and tendons that support that.....he seems to be the fighter version. I have a high opinion of Wilder and expect him to rule for quite a while he would have done just as well in the previous 80-90's era the issue wasn't size as it was talent the eras were stocked with capable fighters.

 

As far as born with I think you missed the point entirely. People definitely have a natural accumulation to activities and what not but that doesn't stop those interested in their activities from explaining them. Art is so well known we're making chips to replace studio artists. That came from studying folks like yourself and figuring out what separates you from the rest of us who can't hardly doodle.


I said force when speaking about blades and promptly went back to energy when fists. It's kind of ingrained because with swords you're usually speaking about force, but I did not mean force. I wrote energy most of the time because I was speaking to energy. The analogy should have used energy as well. Doesn't make any difference to what you're asking me, but ya know clarification. You made me notice I used them interchangeably which is fine when just shooting the **** but I shouldn't have done that here.

I wasn't speaking to how Foreman or Marciano generate their energy I was speaking to what happens to it when they land. No matter how you cut bud a larger surface has to produce more energy to create the same transfer of energy into another body. It's why bullets are sharp, why curved blades slice easier, why ball-peen hammers are round and so on. Maybe I do a **** job conveying that part to y'all, but there is no arguing that bit. If you don't like Foreman and Marciano as the characters pick new ones, it's not their match-up that was important. Honestly I just thought who represented larger big punchers and who represented small big punchers, if you reckon those guy's gap is too much replace them with fellas you don't reckon are too much because the energy over surface areas bit is without a doubt, not even high level, physics. All things, not just fists, even in space. Like really basic stuff. I don't mean that offensively I just mean to stress I am very sure.

It'd be the pinky knuckle that would carry the most amount of energy because if it's purity in the kinematic chains. If a boxer landed directly on the pinky knuckle they'd almost certainly break it. What stops the pinky knuckle from getting broken is when they land it isn't just the pinky knuckle landing, well there are those reaching hooks etc that pop up from time to time but you know ideally speaking it isn't just the pinky knuckle landing. Spreading that energy across the other knuckles is what stops the pinky knuckle from breaking.

Remember, you hit a thing that thing hits back, action reaction. The energy you put into a face that face puts into your fist. A bigger fist is going to spread that energy across a greater surface simple as. A small fist is going to funnel the energy into the kinematic chain much more efficiently and if the chain is pure the energy has no where to be absorbed by by the object being struck. An impure kinematic chain is going to bounce because of that energy, regardless of fist size. Does that mean George Foreman and Rocky Marciano had roughly the same amount of practical power? I guess not to you, but how else to you explain 925 foot pounds not killing people? Either the Army is full of it, or Marciano has more than enough energy to kill, break bones, etc. You can say well he never landed a clean one but he landed them pretty damn clean sometimes and I never heard of him killing anyone. I think the truth is is just about any HW well known for their power has death dealing power if they're allowed to really go full force. I don't think they do it in the ring. I think it's a bit more like nascar ya know? Bit more controlled, even Marciano. I think Marciano is as wild as he is to make up the difference in size but is still reserved enough to be a boxer...not like you know a points boxer, he's definitely a slugger, but still he's a pro ya get me?

A direct kinematic chain backed by a huge energy source accumulating into a small surface area is without a doubt a damn hard punch fellas. I'm not saying it's the only way nor am I saying it's what unites all hard as **** punchers I'm just saying it's one way that would be rather hard to catch by eye that might explain why some boxer hit harder than others.

 

Mcvey says: Truth is no one knows

Glaukos: No one has ran tests

Mcvey: I saw AJ on TV do exactly what you said.

Did I miss something?

As far as the rest of your nonsense, dude, what do you know about physical guidelines? I explain some simple physics to you and you call it a myth. "The size of fists or legs do not dictate how hard anyone hits no more than the size of biceps" Yeah? Tell me more about physical guidelines.

I'm real glad you got your big boy pants on and responded again. I don't care if no one reads this. I don't care if no one else ever knows. You sir, are full of ****. You pretend to have an understanding of things you don't to fit a narrative you want to push. I don't give a damn what excuse you have, you shat the bed then tried to go to bat with it. You tell me my historians are not good enough and I let it go. You tell me my facts are wrong and I just take your word for it. You tell me fist has nothing to do with power c'mon. That's just some old foolishness coming from an old man clinging to his old ideas and not an ounce of anything more. Cool your boots, know your role.

 

This subject has been studied to death the anatomy, mechanics and physics can answer some things as to why some athletes do not maximize what they have but the natural part of why a fighter has punching power and some don't has innumerable combinations of human factors involved....the subject of one man beating the brains out of another man has not inspired the minds of science to work on exactly how it is done more effectively. No two punchers are identical physically, anatomy or mechanics....the code to break the why would be on par with being able to break the code to recombination of DNA from one child to another mathematically. To put it simply as McVey did if it was possible to teach KO power beyond natural ability it would have been done.

 

Show me, where are these studies?

It's my job bud, I know they don't exist. Likewise I know there is a very strong boxing following in physics nerds, also because of my job...we talk. We'd love to analyze professional boxers. It's not us not being willing to figure it out and everything else that makes boxers tick. it's boxing not being interested in that bill. We do have to get paid for our time and that's based on if I'm working on X I'm not working on Y. So they have to compete with things like prosthetics or shoes or just all sorts of industry safety BS.

 

But isn't explosiveness largely something you are born with? Like it's the same for sprinters, it's largely natural ability.

 

I agree build doesn't seem to be the key. But it can be understood. Explosiveness is a trait some people just naturally have a lot more of, it's to do with differences in the nervous system. It's similar with sprinters. While the top sprinters tend to have muscles, you can have someone elite (even by modern standards), like Jesse Owens, and some more recent examples, who are fairly lean, and you have plenty of guys with muscles who can't sprint for ****.

There are a lot of technique elements too, and some people are better at finding ways to maximise their power. Dempsey, for example, with putting his weight on his front leg, then dropping it, throwing his weight forward. Then there are also when and where to throw the big punch. Again it's similar for sprinting, which I think is an interesting one to compare, because whle sprinting can be improved, sprinters are largely born not made.

 

If Wilder had normal human legs he'd weigh 235-240.

 

It’s his small waist. Hopkins was the same. So was Paul Williams. People with big shoulders and small waists generally appear bigger their weight in the scales.

 

He has 18 inch thighs.

 

I’m not sure how much more weight he could store in his thighs. Probably just a couple pounds per thigh.