Would modern Deontay Wilder be too small for the 80s/90s HW divison?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by reznick, Jul 21, 2018.


Page 4 of 12
  1. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

    15,901
    7,643
    Mar 17, 2010
    At some point you have to turn your eyeballs inwards and examine the ridiculousness of your argument.

    You're literally trying to change the definition of size, as it relates to boxing.

    They're called weight classes. And they are determined by weight.

    Are there "bigger" 215lbers than Wilder in history?
    Who is the next biggest?

    Did Joe Louis have any more fat on him at 216 than Wilder did?
    https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/...jersey-joe-walcott-with-a-picture-id515181246

    Are these versions of Louis and Wilder in different leagues of size, despite weighing exactly the same?
     
    reznick, Jul 21, 2018
    reznick, Jul 21, 2018
    #46
    Bonecrusher likes this.
  2. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    66,133
    53,517
    Feb 11, 2005
    Ah... I've missed the refreshing breeze of willful ignorance that has returned.
     
    Seamus, Jul 21, 2018
    Seamus, Jul 21, 2018
    #47
  3. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

    15,901
    7,643
    Mar 17, 2010
    If Choklab said this to defend a smaller fighter, I'd pray for his safety.
     
    reznick, Jul 21, 2018
    reznick, Jul 21, 2018
    #48
  4. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

    15,901
    7,643
    Mar 17, 2010
    You don't get enough breeze searching the junk yard for Dempseys jock strap?
     
    reznick, Jul 21, 2018
    reznick, Jul 21, 2018
    #49
  5. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

    3,442
    1,199
    Jul 19, 2004
    :icon_popcorn::icon_popcorn::icon_popcorn:
     
    Bonecrusher, Jul 21, 2018
    Bonecrusher, Jul 21, 2018
    #50
  6. sauhund II

    sauhund II Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,523
    2,239
    Nov 8, 2008
    Wilder is a extremely fit Heavy, he has never gassed, IMO , could go 15 no problem. I call him the current day Marciano, looks easy to beat from the outside but once you step into the Ring with him it is a completely different story. IMO, he knocks the Bodybuilder out.

    Back to weight............Bowe and Lewis, two very formidable Heavies fought between 225-228 and performed excellent at that weight, without the flu , Wilder is usually in the same range while being taller.

    Anyway, fit Superheavies 6'5 and up can easily be in the 220 weight range and remain effective but it takes discipline which most current Heavies have never heard off.
     
    sauhund II, Jul 21, 2018
    sauhund II, Jul 21, 2018
    #51
    Glass City Cobra likes this.
  7. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

    15,901
    7,643
    Mar 17, 2010
    If Lewis performed excellently at 225, why did he put on the weight? 25lb is no light snack.

    He seems to have been too disciplined to simply just let himself go.

    I feel as though his ability to gain mass would otherwise be seen as a virtue to his size and strength.
    But now that the practicality of such a strategy comes into question through examining Deontay Wilder, there seems to be an alternate approach regarding Lewis' ability to fight at 245-250lb. One that says "It didn't really matter."
     
    reznick, Jul 21, 2018
    reznick, Jul 21, 2018
    #52
  8. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

    66,499
    87,465
    Aug 21, 2012
    It's impossible to turn eyeballs inwards. Now that's ridiculous.

    Nope.

    Strangely enough, they take other measurements as well.

    You're punting this particular barge up the river, you tell me.


    Yes he did. Louis also had solid legs whereas Wilder has matchstick legs.

    http://1284474717.rsc.cdn77.org/images/PICS/FIGHTERS/2017/US/wilder-win-hafey.jpg

    Yes.

    Size is:

    Deontay Wilder: 83 inches reach
    Joe Louis: 76 inches reach

    Reznick "Awww, ah, no a 7 inch reach advantage is nothing! Look at the weight man, LOOOK AT THE WEIGHT!!!"
     
    BCS8, Jul 21, 2018
    BCS8, Jul 21, 2018
    #53
    MrFoFody likes this.
  9. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

    15,901
    7,643
    Mar 17, 2010
    Not...to determine the weight class, in which fighters are ranked and paired against each other through...

    You are introducing this phenomenon of the big 216lber.
    That's your idea. And since you created the classification, hopefully your idea is baked enough that you can mention other fighters in that class. Or is it unreasonable for me to assume you have thought this out in more detail, and can thus expound on it?

    Where is the fat?

    Two fighters who weigh the exact same can be in different leagues in terms of size?
    Can you name any non heavyweight examples of this?

    You're the one presenting this asinine argument where size in boxing is beholden to reach and height. So Paul Williams is bigger than Mike Tyson? Got it.

    Aw, you're starting to melt.
     
    reznick, Jul 21, 2018
    reznick, Jul 21, 2018
    #54
  10. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    66,133
    53,517
    Feb 11, 2005
    Naseem apparently believes that increased weight is a benefit.
     
    Seamus, Jul 21, 2018
    Seamus, Jul 21, 2018
    #55
  11. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

    66,499
    87,465
    Aug 21, 2012
    And yet one man's dimensions may be more advantageous than another's.

    Sure. Go through Boxrec and find 215lb guys with a large reach and height advantage over louis. Arrange them in order.

    https://www.specsavers.co.za/

    Tommy Hearns: 6'1, 78 inch reach
    Kell Brook: 5'9, 69 inch reach

    You're the one presentig the farcical, moronic argument that a massive height and reach advantage means nothing.
     
    BCS8, Jul 21, 2018
    BCS8, Jul 21, 2018
    #56
  12. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

    15,901
    7,643
    Mar 17, 2010
    Cool dude. Who is the guy we're arguing against on this? I don't see him.

    You're forgetting the most important attribute.
    They have to have an incredibly strong frame, remember?
    The one that compensates for 20-30lb?

    I honestly am having a difficult time thinking of examples.
    We've talked about Foreman, but Foreman didn't exactly ante up to this when he decided to come back with extra mass.

    You created the classification.
    You are the ones who said these fighters exist.
    Who are they?

    If you tell me about a new classification of strong Apples you thought of, but can't point the apples to me, then I can only assume that you don't know what you're talking about. Or that you're withholding information from me. In which I can't help you with your own argument.


    Witty memes work better when you're actually right.

    These guys are in different leagues of size?
    Very interesting

    Except I never did that.
    My argument is that weight is the primary factor in determining size.
    Which seems to be backed up by the fact that there are weight classes, determined by how much one weighs on a scale.

    Interesting that another agenda produces another crazy argument.
    One where height and reach should determine size, rather than weight.
    Don't do agendas, kids.
     
    reznick, Jul 21, 2018
    reznick, Jul 21, 2018
    #57
  13. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

    66,499
    87,465
    Aug 21, 2012
    Your argument is:

    1) WILDER weighs 215 and is the WBC champ
    2) LOUIS weighed 215
    3) Ergo, there's no difference between Wilder and Louis!!!!!!!

    ... your argument is palpably WRONG.

    It's wrong because you ignore all the other factors that make a heavyweight "big". You're being wilfully blind.

    Now if you want to make the argument that Louis could win a title today, I might go with that. In fact, I think he beats Wilder more easily than he'd beat Ortiz. But that's because of styles, and age, and relative skill levels. NOT because "they both weigh 215lb". That's the sort of argument I'd expect from a noob.
     
    BCS8, Jul 21, 2018
    BCS8, Jul 21, 2018
    #58
  14. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Member of the PC Fan Club Full Member

    2,665
    2,691
    Jan 28, 2018
    Alot of fighters do not, or just cannot remain coming in the best shape possible. I´ve never heard of explanations as "weight transformation" for George Foreman coming with surplus body fat into the ring, excess mass that has to be carried around. Its also mass that has to be accelerated in a game which relays on speed strength. Excess mass all around your belly having much more disadvantages than advantages. Do I really have to explain such basics? Its no functional mass. Boxing is no sumo wrestling.

    Young George and "The Mummy" have very little in common. First was a explosive destroyer, second was a energy ration expert with high ring iq, sacrificing what he has been before. Loosing every round vs Moorer, until he got lucky against an opponent beeing overweight himself.
    Parrallels to the Peralta fight are slim to none. Like any comparisons to Wilder, who comes shredded in the best shape possible into the ring....

    A comparison to Louis is laughable absurd. As Rocky beating that man in his last fight (beeing 200lb in shape) as a evidence for competing with modern shredded behemoths.
    Stop making an idiot of yourself. Its getting bitter embarrassing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
    GOAT Primo Carnera, Jul 22, 2018
    GOAT Primo Carnera, Jul 22, 2018
    #59
  15. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,137
    5,764
    Feb 26, 2009
    Wilder is a guy who I think has a shaky chin because of his build.. If he had trouble knocking someone out, he might be knocked out.
     
    PernellSweetPea, Jul 22, 2018
    PernellSweetPea, Jul 22, 2018
    #60
    BCS8 likes this.
Page 4 of 12