Would Of Tony Ayala Jr Been A ATG?

Yes, he would've been great...and then some.

As for the opposition back then, Tony would've KO'd them all....only Hagler could've possibly beaten Torito IMO.

 

As amateurs, impressive. To my knowledge, Mike, Sammy and Tony Jr. have been the only trio of boxing brothers to win National Golden Gloves Championships. Mike won the 1974 National AAU Bantamweight championship; Sammy was the 1975 National Jr. Olympics champ at 119 lbs. And Tony Jr. won back-to-back National Jr. Olympics titles in 77-78.

As pros, Ok I guess...Mike as you may know had a title fight with Danny "Little Red Lopez in 79, had few other title fights which he lost. Sammy had 23-3 career record. The youngest one, Paulie (not the former bantamweight champion) had a few pro fights, but nothing more.

 

What exactly was it that pre-prison Ayala Jr did to suggest to you that he would be so dominant and go on to be so much?

 

I watched that fight on youtube. Ayala hits him after the stoppage if I remember correctly. Bad feeling.

 

From age 8 onward, Tony NEVER lost a fight. Even as a child, Tony had freakish power, and was knocking out older more experienced fighters. Robbie Epps witnessed this when he trained in San Antonio. At 14, Tony engaged in a sparring match with the feared Cuevas, who was WW champ at the time and notorious for the breaking the bones of opponents. Yet young Tony clobbers him and humiliates him, so much so that Pipino moved his training from San Antonio to Houston as he didn't want to spar with Tony anymore.

But that's not all. As a young prospect, Tony already fought like an old pro. Hagler thought so, anyway. He also somewhat agreed with Lou Duva's notion that the top 5 MW's in the world couldn't handle Ayala. From what I've seen of Tony, I don't find that far off. People think of Tony as just a one dimensional puncher. He could indeed punch, but he could also slip and counter, and pick his shots beautifully. In his National GG championship bout with Lamont Kirkland, he showcased good defensive skills. And gave the bigger taller Kirkland such a pounding to the ribs that Lamont had to be given a standing 8-count. Torito won by decision.

Well tought by his father, this young prodigy had the combination of extraordinary talent, freakish power, withering attack, and skilled veteran-like instincts. Sometimes he just didn't use all of them, as he too often went for the quick kill.

This wasn't just any other prospect. This was Tony Ayala Jr.

That's my take on him.

 

Ayala was one of the more solid prospects I have seen over the years..but really he proved himself against no one.

A stretch and a half to say he becomes an ATG or even a HOF'r, whilst fighters with more apparent ability were unable to.

 

Yes, Mike and Sammy were drug users as well, but neither would get into as much trouble as Tony Jr.

Tony Sr. wanted his sons to know how to defend themselves, so he tought them to box. As early as age 5, he had his sons in boxing gloves. He was a good teacher, but pushed them too hard. In addition to training, he and his sons would engage in sadomasochistic activities to increase pain tolerance. At meals, he would have his sons eat jalapenos. Also, they would take turns pinching each other to "toughen" up. Basically, Tony Sr. raised his sons like pit bulls.

Tony Sr. not only trained his sons, but other kids from the neighborhood as well. Soon he started a gym, which has been a San Antonio landmark for decades. This was beneficial to the community, as it kept a lot of kids out of trouble.

As for Robbie Epps, I don't know the whole story there. But, from what I understand, Epps, son of a serviceman stationed in San Antonio, used to train with Tony and his sons. Then he walked out, saying he learned all he could from Papa Bull. Apparently that's how it all started.

 

i dont think its a stretch. You could say it would have been a stretch that mcCallum would turn out to be atg status because a lack of firepower while at the same time, Tony could punch with results that were on par with Cuevas himself, probably the most feared puncher of our generation.

who was around the time that could have stopped Tony's rise to the top? Benitez? Duran? Moore? Maybe Hearns but there was always the wba version.

When I heard the news Duran was scheduled to fight him I really feared for Duran. Fortunately Tony had his career cut short and Duran went on to lose to Kirland Laing, a slick boxer.

 

Hearns would've blew him out
Leonard takes a UD
Duran knocks him out in middle rounds

 

How doesDuran take him out if he couldnt even take out Laing?

I also dont see Leonard outscoring someone so much stronger than himself. Leonard is a welter. In fact i didnt even mention leonard fot that same reason. He campaigns mainly at 147 and there's no way he survives someone this powerful. He wouldnt have even taken this fight.

As for Hearns, ive seen novices take him eight (Mckraken), jouneymen take him the distance (Dewitt, Minchillo, Sutherland)

If anything, Tommy will have to fight to survive. His chin isnt exactly the best. ESBers said it wasnt