Would Post Prison Tyson beat all the contenders from his First Title Reign?

No. I think he loses to Tony Tucker and Buster Douglas, so long as it was the Douglas that showed up for their first fight. The fat, lazy, unmotivated Douglas loses, but no one ever doubted his talent and potential. He was one of the biggest underachievers in boxing history.

 

Yey but the Tucker fight would have been close.

 

Not unless he started from scratch and had the drive to be a fighter and not just someone that needed to pay back bills. Post-Prison Tyson was a complete mess...mostly mentally/emotionally.

The only way he gets it back I would say was to act like he was just starting out as a pro like he was 18. Take maybe 2 full years to get everything back and then shoot for the title...but under the guidance of Rooney who was the only one that knew how to push Tyson as well as knowing that style and philosophy D'Amato taught. It wasn't a perfect relationship but it did prove to be better than the rest as far as production.
And matches that made sense to get you back on track.


I agree with "globenerd":
I think Prime/Undefeated Tucker that fought Tyson beats Post-prison Tyson.
That version of Douglas who fought Tyson in Japan I would still favor...although the version of Tyson that showed up against Bruno II has a better shot than the version that showed up against Douglas the first time around. Tyson-Bruno version has a chance for a KO by the early-mid-rounds but after that...forget it.
You still need timing, accuracy, a game-plan, etc. Tyson didn't exactly have that compared to where it used to be.
He was more brawler at that point than anything.

I also wonder about some other match ups.

 

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Brooks always held out hope for Iron Mike

Beyond the promise of a series of solid paydays for training Mike Tyson, Tommy Brooks always had a fleeting belief that if he just could reach Tyson, just get him to listen, get him to work, Tyson could still be the best heavyweight fighter in the world.

After all the years, all the disgrace, Brooks was certain Tyson could still do it. Beyond the wild nights, the disgusting, criminal acts, Tommy Brooks believed he could turn the raw rage and punching power into that long-gone 20-year-old machine.

"He's got more talent in his little finger than most all the rest of them," Brooks said. "Even now."

This is the tease of Tyson. This is what keeps everyone coming back again and again.

"(Tyson's) been cutting corners for so long, I'm not sure he knows another way now," Brooks said. "I'm regretful that a guy with so much talent and ability just went down the tubes. That's why I left Evander Holyfield. But if I had any indication that my watch with him would be like this, I would've stayed with Evander."

Looking back, Brooks should've had every indication: There are no happy endings with this man. In the end, there's just disappointment, disillusionment and disgust. On the eve of Tyson playing his part as America's carnival act at a New York news conference Tuesday, there came a call to Brooks' New Jersey office. Tyson fired him. Actually, Tyson's people fired him.

Brooks wasn't surprised. Tyson and the trainer hadn't talked for several months. The fighter is struggling to meet his payroll. After handling Tyson for the six fights since the end of his year-long suspension for flipping out on Holyfield, guess who was going? Do you think it was going to be Tyson's Yes-men enablers, or the trainer unafraid to tell the fighter the painful truth?

"I'm disappointed that I didn't see the guy back to the title," Brooks said. "But I'm relieved that I don't have to deal with the idiots around him anymore. You've got guys backstabbing you, undermining what you're trying to accomplish in the gym. A majority of them didn't see the big picture. They were just living paycheck to paycheck from him."

Which is what most of boxing does with Tyson, feed off him payday to payday. Everybody gets rich on his bad act. With Brooks, Tyson had little chance to beat Lewis. Without him, he has none. Even so, there's a good chance that Tyson never makes it to Vegas on April 6. It's ridiculous to think the melee in Manhattan could be the foundation for the Nevada Boxing Commission refusing to license Tyson.

What, now Tyson's nuts? All of a sudden that proves it? Come on. If they were going to let him fight before Tuesday, they should let him fight now.

"He's crazy like a fox," Brooks said. What people ought to be outraged about with Tyson isn't the staged lunacy of a news conference, but the revelation that charges could be brought against him for an alleged **** in Nevada. Again. This should inspire the rage of the moralists. The press conference? That's what people want out of Tyson, what they come to see, what they expect.

For that alleged victim visiting Tyson's Las Vegas home months ago there are no tidy clips for the nightly news, no x-rated sound bites for the boom mikes. She's an alleged part of Tyson's act, part of his twisted persona, and that didn't seem so important to his Vegas licensing hearing until his WWF moment in New York.

"Every time he's done something, he's come back," Brooks said. "He's like a bus wreck waiting to happen, but he always skirts (trouble). I told him many times, 'We live in a society. They've got rules and ethics, and if you don't conform, they've got a place for you.' They'll only put up with it so long. I hope to God that Mike doesn't get put in that place, because this time, he won't last there."

Perhaps Tyson belongs back in prison. Once more, the criminal justice system will decide. Even without the looming charges, there's this question on the sheer merits of his fight record: Does he deserve a title shot, never mind this ridiculous two-fight series? More than that, does Tyson truly want the fight?

"At times he does and at times, he doesn't," Brooks said. "If he could go fight Lewis and not train, he'd do it. He'd just show up and take his best shot on sheer ability. Mike only trained for two weeks, and he made it 11 rounds with Holyfield."

This is the lure of Tyson. This is the tease. People still think there's one more great fight in him, one final flash of a long ago glory. But there isn't. He's done. Trouble is, it's hard to stop watching him.

Tommy Brooks understands. It's hard resisting the possibilities, harder to truly believe they're gone now. All gone.

Adrian Wojnarowski is a sports columnist for The Record (Northern N.J.) and a regular contributor to ESPN.com.

http://espn.go.com/columns/wojnarowski_adrian/1317765.html

 

post prison tyson loses to tucker douglas and he may well have lost to spinks ruddock and holmes he was no more than 40% of what he was pre prison.

 

I had the same conversation with Tommy Brooks and saw his frustration many times as Tyson didnt show up for camp or didnt try or was just flat out miserable that he had to train to make millions of dollars.. crazy really. He maintains that about Tyson and it only takes a little time around Tyson to believe it. To see Tyson in training when he really tries is crazy. The guy moves like a middleweight.
That being said the Tyson of 96 struggles with a lot of movers he blew out. Also his defensive lapses put him danger with some of the bigger punchers.
Tubbs
Tucker
Holmes
Smith
Ruddock
Douglas
Ribalta
Green
Spinks
They could all give him problems. You only had to see Botha and Mathis making him miss and miss and the shots he took from Holyfield to know he had slipped a lot. I think Brooks was slowly correcting a lot of Tysons mistakes but the time off between fights really never allowed Tyson to get into a rhythem with exception of around the time he faced Savarese and Golota.

 

Tyson trained only for 2 weeks for Holy I? Wow...

 

It shows you Tyson did it to himself and should be blamed. People like to blame King but Tyson brought in King. Robin? Tyson brought her in.
Rooney and Cayton? Tyson got rid of them.

Poor choices = downfall.

With Brooks, if you are going to hire a trainer like that, the least Tyson could have done is told him the truth that he didn't want to be a fighter anymore so he didn't waste his time. What he should have done if he did was given him the respect he deserved as trainer and listened to what needed to be done to win. Get rid of the thugs in camp. Train hard. Focus. And so on.

Tyson made poor choices so what resulted in his career is his fault. It starts from the top.


Staying on topic with Your Avatar:
Emanuel Steward had the opportunity to train Tyson but he went for Lewis instead. Wonder why.



Now he did train hard for the second bout with Holyfield...at least physically. His personal trainer noted that he did. Didn't train hard for the first but did for the second. Holyfield also noted that he thought Tyson was in better shape because he saw a bounce in his step.

Of course, it didn't matter. Being in Physical shape can only get you so far. It still starts from the Top, the Mind. Without that, forget it. You'll get exposed the longer the fight goes on specifically with a good fighter that comes to fight and win.

To be mentally strong you have to want to fight...have to want to win...have to keep disciplined...and have to have the confidence to win...which comes in training and knowing you have done all you could have done to prepare to win. Without the technical skills needed, which aren't born, but learned and honed over time the correct way...you chances aren't high.

Tyson's career is good to review for any student of the game that wants to know the difference of what it takes to win and lose...and why even a the best athlete, someone considered a "phenom" talent...can get their ass kicked if they stop training the right way...and make poor choices.

Not just in boxing story but for anybody.

 

how would Brooks know that he was training Holyfield, not Tyson

 

I think he loses to Tucker and I could see Bonecrusher Smith giving him a lot more trouble.

 

hell no, he would lose to most of them!

 

Post Prison Tyson was better than most people give him credit for and he still ko'd one person he fought before(Bruno). That being said, he wasn't motivated in the Douglas fight so imagine an even more unmotivated Mike in there, he would've been token out by the same Buster earlier notice I mean the dedicated Buster. Tucker probably beats him too but that's pretty much it. Pinklon still gets taken out though lol.

 

Remember folks, natural ability is great but it's hard work and dedication that gets you far and as soon as Tyson lost that he started slipping. Usually fighter's careers tend to end quicker when they only rely on natural ability & instincts; it's technique that saves ur ass.