Would prime 1960s Ali still have to employ the rope-a-dope strategy against the guys he used it?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Devon, Jan 30, 2025.


Would he?

  1. Yes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Some of them, but not all of them

    60.0%
  3. No

    40.0%
  1. Devon

    Devon Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Foreman, Frazier Norton etc? Was it more to do with him facing much better guys at closing ring off than his movement diminishing? Or wouldn’t he have to use those tactics?
    Remember, he didn’t use it against certain guys like Quarry, Ellis (I think) or Bonavena (I think).
    Not counting his fights after the thriller in Manila, from his first comeback fight to the thriller in Manila, would prime Ali still need to use the rope a dope against the opposition he used it against?
     
  2. themaster458

    themaster458 Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Frazier and Norton no because it was a bad move against them and gave him no benefit. Foreman maybe just because Foreman was very good at cutting the ring and forcing people into corners so he might not have had a choice. Though would prime Ali be able to do the Rope-a-dope who knows?
     
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  3. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I voted no, but hard to know exactly of course.

    An Ali who was in great shape tired himself out against Norton in the rematch after 4-5 rds and had to pull it out of the bag late. Yes, 60's Ali had better legs, but over 15 there would still be stages when he slowed down. But in '73 he didn't really "rope-a-dope" as such during those moments, even though he was trapped on the ropes at times.

    Foreman was great at cutting off the ring as you say, and the conditions in Zaire, with the small ring and slow canvas as well, would make it very challenging even for a prime Ali. Foreman didn't have Norton's stamina nor his defence, though, and he would always tire himself in those conditions and from the punches he would gobble up. The thing that's often overlooked with that fight is that he was target practice from the opening bell and that would be even more true if it was prime Ali in there with him.

    In Manilla, the conditions was also very much against using a lot of movement. I think Ali is going to be forced tp spend some time on the ropes if he can't get Joe out of there. In normal conditions that version of Frazier would probably have a hard time keeping up with him, but the conditions in Manilla would work in his favour. I think this one is really difficult even for prime Ali.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2025
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Muhammad Ali was training a version of the rope-a-dope for Liston. He had a fear early doors that he might get trapped fighting at a pace he didn't like for a period longer than he was comfy with it. Ali's was a very high energy style, defensively, offensively, and mobility, all high energy. He knew, I think, that this wasn't the only answer to pressure in the ring. So maybe. It would have depended on how things went. He had the firepower to blow out Foreman in 8 and we know he could stay up there for most of 8, in the Foreman example.

    Against Frazier, no. He's not going to be able to stay ahead of Frazier for fifteen rounds, he'd have come down and either slugged it out or retreated to the ropes or most likely a combination of both.