Would Prime Foreman Ever Beat Jimmy Young?

I almost cried lol

 

Did he have stamina issues in his comeback in his forties ?
He went 12 rds in those fights without once taking to his stool.Foreman had pacing problems in his first career, not stamina problems.

 

He paced himself in the Young fight and still was gassed during the last 4 rounds.

 

Didn’t George also say that a contributor to his stamina issues was him being keyed up and unable to sufficiently relax.

Certainly, for one thing, Young George was somewhat more angry than old George and that can lend to a faster depletion of one’s tank and also lead to some reckless exertions on top of same, lol.

 

I value the knowledgeable posters opinions on here more and the fact they scored the rounds pretty much identical to me. Aswell as being in line with the 2 judges i think it's a pretty valid point.

I'll concede the 118-111 scorecard that the 1 judge had was too wide.

But the 116-112 card was right on the money for me.

I just don't see in what world where Young only won by a single point.

The 1st half of the fight was nip/tuck and when Foreman had the big 7th round. I could maybe see Foreman having a slight edge or the fight being even at that point.

But Young won a majority of the rounds in the 2nd half of the fight and simply distanced himself from Foreman on the cards.

Young also objectively had possibly 2 10-8 rounds with the point deduction and the knockdown.

Unless you scored the point deduction round even but even then that's a round that Foreman doesn't win regardless.

So for Young to win by only 1 point when Foreman possibly lost 4 points with the minimum being 3 it seems far fetched to me.

 

The heat did him in as it did Robinson v Maxim .Robinson didn't have stamina issues either.

 

Young fought in the same arena and heat didn't do him in. Also, Rumble In The Jungle, also the heat, right?

 

Maxim fought in the same arena and heat as Robinson didn't he? Foreman wasn't pacing himself in the 7th round he was trying to end it! Nope ,Foreman shot his wad against Ali because he went for the ko in every round, lack of pacing ,don't try and put words in my mouth,I find I can speak very well for myself.

 

It's because sometimes there's too many words from both of us when i'm quoting so it won't allow me make the post so i had to delete some stuff.

In the classic forum i do value the opinions of the most knowledgeable posters on here.

There's posters who have way more knowledge than me and have seen and scored alot more fights than me.

So if my scoring is pretty close to theirs then i'd say i've done a fairly good job of scoring the fight.

I think the general consensus is Young won a competitive but pretty clear decision i'd say in the region of about 4 points is about right.

Also the other poster who commented here didn't have it 115-113 you're mistaken it was 115-112 which is more in line with what i've been saying.

Foreman had a point deducted so he possibly had 2 10-8 rounds against him including the knockdown.

Unless you scored the point deduction round even but even then Foreman is not winning this round.

So i find it hard to believe that Young would only win by a single point given that fact Foreman lost possibly 4 points with the minimum being 3.

I have issue with it because in your original post you insinuated that Young was getting biased unfair treatment. Where in your words Foreman was the villain and the official turned a blind eye to what Young was doing.

So basically you're trying to insinuate that Foreman was hard done by and he would've won under different circumstances and i don't agree with that analysis.

My opinion is that Foreman was outsmarted and outfought on the night simple as that.

Because you're suggesting that Foreman would have a very good chance of stopping Young early.

But the only somewhat stylistic comparison would be the Peralta fights as you said and Foreman was extended into the 10th round twice.

So i don't see how you come to that conclusion that Foreman has a very good chance of stopping Young early when the Peralta fights say otherwise.

Not to mention that Peralta is a former Light Heavyweight who was under 200 pounds in his mid 30s and Young is a step above Peralta at Heavyweight. Also the fact that Young is close to 20 pounds heavier than him weighing in at 213 pounds which is what he weighed when he beat Foreman.

I never said Peralta wasn't still a capable fighter but it is fair to say being 36 years old with almost 100 fights that you have alot of miles on clock.

As for Shavers 1 year before he scored one of the best wins of his career stopping Ellis in 1 round, yes he had some up and down performances during that time.

Quarry just caught him cold in 1st round TBH.

I haven't seen the Stalling fight.

But his fight against Lyle not long after he fought Young was a great slugfest that could've gone either way.

Shavers always had his weaknesses his chin could be a bit shaky and his stamina was suspect also.

But Young is not a big puncher so he can't really exploit his chin in that way, and over 10 rounds he maybe didn't quite have enough rounds to separate himself from Shavers and exploit his stamina. Because as you know Shavers always comes out fast and Young got off to a bad start with the knockdown.

For example if the Foreman fight had been 10 rounds it would've been close on the cards. The championship rounds is where Foreman started to really gas and Young was able to separate himself even more from Foreman on the cards.

Frazier adopted a different tactic in the rematch vs Foreman he tried to fight on the backfoot and fight a more tactical fight. And i thought he did ok showing some decent defence aswell which probably threw Foreman off somewhat at the start.

Unfortunately Frazier hasn't got the dimensions to pull off that style he's simply out of his comfort zone and Foreman is just a horrible style match up for him.

I don't see it as a negative Foreman was sharp and still disposed of Frazier early.

Which other fighter at that time do you think could stop Frazier that early ? And there's your answer.

 

Because Young is considerably harder to hit and better on the backfoot than Norton aswell as having a better track record against punchers.

Norton didn't last longer than 2 rounds against any notable puncher he fought. So i doubt he'd do that much better vs Foreman he simply froze whenever he got badly hurt.

Yes people bring this up alot and use it as a negative against Young which is always surprising to me.

But if anything it's a positive to me Young took Foreman's best punch and comeback in the same round. Which is always conveniently forgotten that Young actually finished the round quite well.

Foreman is from a hotter state than Young being from Texas so logically he should be used to the heat more so than Young. I don't see it as a valid excuse because simply both fighters had to deal with it.

Unless it's like Hopkins/Mercado 1 for example where Hopkins fought Mercado in his backyard in Ecuador in very high altitude. which Mercado is used to and Hopkins isn't then yes something like that is a valid excuse.

But the weather being hot which doesn't really benefit Young or Foreman i don't see it as a valid excuse because as i said both fighters had to deal with it.

Wouldn't Young also do better not being in extreme heat aswell ? again that's the problem it only ever applies to Foreman and not Young.

It's because Foreman is a very popular figure so people like to make excuses for him on why he lost to Young.

The fact is though Foreman was a big favourite vs Young and on a run of 5 stoppages including beating Lyle & Frazier again which are top 5 wins on his resume.

I'm not a believer that Foreman had a less than 2 year prime and was suddenly mentally shot after losing to Ali.

A mentally shot fighter doesn't survive a war vs Lyle showing great heart.

A mentally shot fighter doesn't dispose of Frazier early again.

A mentally shot fighter doesn't string together 5 early stoppages in a row.

 

Sounds like repeated stamina issues to me.

 

It's the exact same thing. Briggs did the same thing when he got older but I'm sure you'd find a way to not count that.

 

No bro, it's stamina. If he'd cut his punch output in half (Pacing!), he would've been fine.

 

Briggs had asthma.I'm sure I'll find a way not to count your opinions.

 

Did he have stamina issues against Holyfield,or Moorer when he was 20 years older?