Would Prime Foreman Ever Beat Jimmy Young?

Foreman was a huge favorite.

 

Why would they take the fight if they thought he wasn’t someone he’d run over instead of maintaining his number 1 position? - honour? lol Young was an underdog for a reason.

 

It's not so much criticism it's an example of Foreman being extended into the later rounds by a boxer type. Hence i don't really understand why people believe Foreman finishes Young early when there's no real evidence of Foreman doing such a thing against a boxer type that was my point.

As for the scoring ? i haven't seen the 1st Foreman/Peralta fight in years but i do remember it being competitive with Peralta having a strong last round as Foreman looked gassed at the end.

I thought Peralta won his fair share rounds maybe 3 or 4 out of the 10 they fought and 1 judge had it quite close 5-4.

The 2nd fight there's no footage of so i can't speak on it other than i know Foreman did better but he was still extended into the 10th round. And remember Peralta was no spring chicken he was 36 years old with almost 100 fights and was at the end of his career.

I'm not saying Foreman couldn't beat Young but i don't think people are recognising the stylistic challenge Young presents. He's a very durable tricky defensive fighter and Foreman didn't pace himself as well as he did in his 2nd career he also had issues vs boxer types.

So what i'm saying is that if Foreman fights more aggressively he would have to beat Young in the 1st half of the fight because i don't think Foreman would have the energy levels later on in the fight especially since Foreman's stamina could be a bit suspect. And when you see that historically it's a very hard thing to do stopping Young let alone early. And especially since Foreman doesn't have a track record of stopping boxer types in the 1st half of the fight i do think that is a challenging task for Foreman to achieve.

Could Foreman win in the 2nd half of the fight after putting so much effort into the 1st half of the fight ? i would say that's debatable considering as i said Foreman's suspect stamina in his 1st career not knowing how to pace himself as well.

I know you didn't what i'm saying is that just because Foreman looked good vs those opponents stopping them early it doesn't mean Foreman has the same success vs Young totally different styles.

I disagree Ali knew he probably didn't have the legs anymore to dance away from Foreman all night long so he probably had the rope a dope in the back of his mind. Ali had been working on the rope a dope as early as the Liston fight he also came in at 216 pounds vs Foreman which to me appears he didn't plan on using his legs for 15 rounds.

Peralta was in his mid 30s and not as good as a Heavyweight as Young was plus if we're using the Peralta logic then that means Foreman wouldn't be stopping Young early either.

Frazier was coming off giving Ali the fight of his life so i don't think he was totally shot but considerably past his best ? absolutely i'd agree on that.

But even in the Foreman fight Frazier showed he had something left and tried to adapt a different style being more defensive and fighting on the backfoot. The issue was Frazier is too short and his dimensions are too small to be an outboxer at Heavyweight.

I don't think that's evidence of Foreman's power being diminished he was measured and hurt Frazier anytime he landed a punch and finished him off impressively.

Two judges had it 116-112, 118-111, that's quite a clear comprehensive win on two of the judges scorecards.

One judge somehow had Foreman ahead going into the 12th round i don't know how but for me it was quite a clear win for Young.

I'm not saying it was a dominant win certainly not no but i don't think there's any debate on who won the fight clearly. For me the judge who had it 116-112 was the only correct score out of all the 3 judges 3 or 4 point win for Young is about right.

Would i say it was close ? going into the 12th round it was probably quite close yeah but after the 12th round with the 2 point round ? after that not for me no because there was no debate after that.

The difference is Foreman was an Olympic gold medalist and had proper matchmaking and a team behind him.

Young was just an opponent fed to the wolves against fighters like Roy Williams, Earnie Shavers, in his first 10 professional bouts.

 

What were the odds?

 

I found this.

"The New York Times reported that Foreman was a 3-1 betting favorite prior to the fight."

 

Class post brother

 

3-1 isn't a "huge favorite" by any stretch.

 

A nicely researched and in ring interpreted post. Incidently, NYT had it for Young by a single point.

 

Young I believe was a top 3 ranked Heavyweight at that time so he'd certainly be seen as somewhat of a threat at that time.

Especially since he'd beaten Lyle alot easier than Foreman did.

Foreman would've been expected to win of course but people in the know probably knew stylistically Young would be a challenge.

 

Absolutely, 3-1 is far from blowout odds. He'd not long prior run Ali close and immediately pre Foreman barely given Ron Lyle a stanza over 12 rounds.

 

Let’s conveniently ignore the Peralta fights.

 

I doubt it, since raw power alone was never going to be enough. Everything about Young was bad news for Foreman. Young was very confident going into the fight with Foreman for a reason. Young predicted that he would be able to neutralize Foreman and wear him down to get the win, which Young did.

During Foreman's pre-champ years Saddler would've never matched Foreman with Young and he certainly wouldn't have had Foreman defend the title against Young.

 

Just to end this on my part because i don't like getting involved in long debates anymore and i've made it a rule to myself to not engage in those type of back and forth long drawn out debates anymore.

I've enjoyed having a friendly convo with my mate @swagdelfadeel who's a similar age to me.

What i will say is that boxing is about stylistic match ups.

Like for example Young would get beaten to a pulp by a swarmer like Frazier.

But yet Foreman matches up really well vs Frazier but maybe not so much vs Young.

It's not me being disrespectful to any fighter it's just i think Young has a good style against Foreman. He's a slippery durable defensive fighter and Foreman being a power puncher who finishes 90 percent of his fights in the first 6 rounds who is a bit suspect in regards to stamina in the 2nd half of a fight. It's always going to be a challenging opponent for Foreman unless he finishes off Young in the first half of the fight, which as i've pointed out is not an easy thing to do considering Young's durability and defence over his 21 year career.

But yeah that's how i see it i wouldn't say i'm really a fan of Young but i do think he was a formidable Heavyweight for a 2 year period between 1975-1977.

And that's me done with this thread.

 

Always a pleasure mate.

 

I think Foreman proved he was capable. He almost knocked Jimmy Young out. Now winning a decision over more than 10 rounds would require everything to go right but he could do that to.