Would Riddick Bowe be in better health today if:

Max Schmeling lived to be 99 years and 6 months old. Died in his sleep 6 months before his 100th birthday.

Jack Sharkey lived to be 91 years old.

 

Chuvalo is 84 or 85, so it could be more age related, although taking punches to the head certainly didn't help.

 

Exactly, that point wasn’t lost.

Even without the trauma of punches to the head, as you said. there’s also genetic predisposition, life style choices etc. that come into play on their own or in possible combination with accumulated trauma if you are a participant in combat sports.

As a possible correlate, Chuvalo also looked fantastic for his age, healthy and robust. In more recent years he appears to have aged that much more but that also isn’t uncommon for people reaching the age George has.

 

Well, one thing is when someone dies isn’t decided by whether they get CTE or not — you can have completely different health problems and die early (heart attack, say) or just the right combination of positive health factors and live a long time.

The other thing is that some people get dementia (CTE, or some other form) from concussive (or possibly repeated sub-concussive) blows and some do not. The belief is there is a genetic component — just as there is for many diseases, Sickle Cell being one — but they have not to date identified exactly what those genetic markers (or DNA combinations) are for CTE.

Remember, not much is known about CTE. It’s a relatively recent discovery. So there’s little data. In fact, what data there is comes from examining the brains of people who died and then saying ‘OK, this person had it.’ Last count I saw there were something around 100 brains of dead people who had shown to have had it. So we’re talking a really small sample size.

 

As I understand, when most people reach their 80s, if they reach their 80s, physical decline tends to be rapid. In fact, most people who make it to 80 will not survive their 80s. People generally live to 70 on the low end and 90 on the upper end. I recently went to the funeral service of a 97 year old woman. She lived almost 100 years, but she had a son who died of a heart attack 15 years ago and he was 57 at the time of his death.

 

Non boxing related but Clint Eastwood held his age well - to a certain point. Appearances wise it seemed Clint aged rapidly after his 50s or so but it’s easy to oversight the intervening years that have passed when his old films are constantly replayed and we are often reminded of the younger version.

His mind is perfect and still energised to this day but compared to his peak years, Clint now looks like a fragile, little old man, bone mass deterioration and barely scraping 5’11” - such are the ravages when you reach incredible ages like 90 +.

I think around that age at least, your will and spirit solely determines how much longer you remain on this earth. Many have had enough, so when the will goes so too do they.

It seems Clint still views life as fresh as he ever did - or reasonably close to same.

And despite his earlier career as a bare knuckle fighter, including going life and death against the formidable William Smith, Clint came out of the game pretty much unscathed. LOL.

 

The link didn't work for me.

Anyway, I don't know if I can say the same for CTE with much certainty, but for Alzheimer's, mental acuity is also largely dependent on brain engagement. Studies have found that some corpses diagnosed with Alzheimer's didn't show obvious symptoms while alive. This is because, contrary to outdated neuroscience, an active brain is more than capable of making new connections even as neurons die off from the disease.

For boxers, retirement often comes with a loss of purpose and coincide with the development of bad habits like overeating, contributing to accelerated decline. But George's advocacy may have forestalled these issues until very late in his life.

 

He was already starting to slur his speech by the third fight with Holyfield.

 

The wars against Holyfield and the fights against Golota permanently damaged him...

 

(effecting a cool but condescending Middle-Eastern intonation) Ah my friend, you are too eaily impressed by the years...
It is not so unusual to reach even 100 these daaaze. The average lifespan approaches 80, & see what % reaches other milestones once they reach 80. Even a small % of a large population is a large number. DATA.

Leaving aside the problem that there seems no likelihood that a literal immaterial soul exists...
I agree that will & spirit often have some impact.
But exponentially more important is regardless of whether you are mae of psychic iron...
You can be the freakin' Buddha & cells & neurons wear out. Telomores get short.
We will need a radical change in effecting the aging process, beyond sinmple patchwork, to significantly increase the upper end.

At 100 lifespan is a good...2 & 1/2 years.
Interestingly I read that at 110-which is very hard to reach-the lifespan flattens out, you have a 50% chance of dying each year!
Intuitively that does not feel right. The 110 year old has the same life expectancy as the vanishingly rare person who reaches 119?!? But...

If true, it might be akin to-or more accurately strongly influence by flipping a coin 10 times in a row. Odds of getting heads or tails each time are 1 in 512. One result, 1024.

A rudimentary check said that 150-600 Super-centenarians in the world (110 & up).
for 100 +, over half a million.
So if we call landing on "heads" akin to surving each year, can we say that today & historically that approximates the odds of reaching 120?
Which only one human (a French lady, 122), reached. There is much mythology & exaggeration too. I recall a Japanese 120 year old demoted, & there are just so few folks who get near that age that I doubt we are missing many-or maybe anyone.

Pugguy you big smart, & I will bet are mo'-better in math than I am.
Whaddya thunk about shear law of averages taking over as the main predictor of life expectancy when you reach ~ 110?

 

Something went wrong with Bowe.

it has to be more than just Golota and the Holyfield fights.

He lived fairly clean. No drugs or drink. He was a young family guy who liked his ice cream and junk food.

Perhaps we need to look at Bowes amateur career for answers? Maybe He took a lot of head shots as a growing boy?

 

So the balance of life eventually comes down to the mere toss of coin - like No Country for Old Men? Or, no country for already old men looking to get any older? Daaayyyum!!

When the time comes I’m going to buy myself a double sided coin. I will cheat Mr Death…aka The Grim Reaper…he ain’t that bright.

You’re right in so far as the data isn’t necessarily reliable - for one, the figures for Super-centenarians are estimates (not confirmed) for the 110 + kids that “should”’exist among us. Circular.

I don’t know that 90 + has been relegated to “ho hum” stage just as yet and there are unfortunately enough souls who do not reach anywhere near that age. Averages are nice but don’t always tell the whole story.

An age range for life expectancy would be more realistic than a pinpoint average derived from questionable sources and collations anyway.

You hear or know of many elderly people who pass away immediately upon or just after reaching a particular milestone or event of importance (viz next birthday, birth of great great grandchild, the passing of their long term spouse etc.)

Of course you can’t defy absolute shut down of your body in its own right but some survive on such a fine balance of will and fragile constitution that their voluntary mind more or less determines how long to go or not to go.

So I take it you’re an atheist or at least don’t believe in any possibility of an afterlife?

 

Extremely interesting info and perspectives.

Thanks!

 

I am saying that 90 is not at all statistically extraordinary-when even when you average in the very early life deaths we are near 80. It will also rise a bit when the novel coronavirus subsides. And other nations go longer due to differential health care access by income & effectively by race here-& our below par average lifestyle (obesity, activity level) choices.

Ah but "you hear..." You must know that these anecdotal reports are not reliable in terms of knowing the ferquency about this *compared to random chance*. You hear about plenty of folks who are ouitliars in height, many 100's of lbs...Because like the heartwarming human interst stories-but for distinct reasons-they are intriguing & notable.

We are both Romantics at heart Pugguy, but it is just not scien-terrific to think that it mainly comes down to intention.
While it can have some impact, by far the strongest force & undertow towards the undertaker is that the body inexhorbably breaks down.
With not that much variation in degree compared to other biological phenomena...

Consider this: the record holder died in 1997. Remembered a crany & aggressively ugly Van Gough.
Now by or at least around this time, one might well reason that the record would be exceeded a bunch of times since then-& by some significant amount. Why?
Well it is not that the world population expanded so much during that relevant cohort of those born in the late 18th century.
Once factor is that as I recall that is when reliable birth records reached a critical mass.
Which would move the needle *if* we were missing some really Ancient Mariners.

But really I figure that the dramatic increase in medical technology would have kept many around well past what would otherwise be feasible.
Whenever that critical mass is considered to have been (b)reached, is it not indisputable that sometime late last century the ability to perform all sorts of medical miracles had dramatically expanded?
You would think that many folks would at least be kept alive, if not very healthy or active...

But no, various "cell death" related factors are natural limitations.
It is not primarily will that deteriorates-you can be the toughest #%&*@of a beach ever & you will expire within a reasonable % of all others.
Men for all our relative flaws cannot be said to have weaker wills than woman. Yet we do not live as long. Hormones & biology.

The statistics for those 110 + are broad in %, but few in absolute numbers-it is unlikely that the reality is outside of that range, so if there are really 500 some (the higher end only), then it is virtually precisely the statistically expected 1 in 1024 of the hypothetical coin toss!
Still I wonder how & why it is the same projected life span every year, from rareified status to ages that may never have been seen.

There are numerous very good explanations for why humans need to or benefit from belief in non-material higher powers-or the equally improbable possibilities where an organized brain, character (or soul) can somehow he preserved.

Reassurance, moral guidance, reward & punishment, incentives *even to live, an explanatory origin myth & cosmology, social control & rationales, supporting the status quo or justifying (deep & greatly evollved) mystical moral philosophies or the ugliest fundamentalism. Tradition & cultural comforts. Even the powerful simple conditioning from the earliest conscious ages!

It violates common sense & Occam's Razor to postulate a magical force that has no rational explanation to exist unborn *and* can know, create, & do anything.
Plus there are many plausible explanations for our beginnings, from evolution to life itself & even any physical time & space ocurring through random-& the latter sub-atomic/quantum mechanisms.

Thus Spake Entaowed-athrusta.

 

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