Would Sonny Liston rule the HW division now?

as fighters like Duran, Pacquiao, and Armstrong have shown, there are exceptions of comparing and throwing in smaller fighters being able to beat larger fighers for comparisons sake. it's obvious both liston and marciano were smaller fighters than wladimir, but stylewise i would pick rocky to beat wladimir. like someone else mentioned, for the most part liston beat smaller fighters with his jab and power, while marciano was apt at beating larger men with better technical skills and would take shots pretty good and throw some hellacious shots after being dropped. we know both klits are better technical fighters than the rock was and also physically stronger, but doesn't mean they would be able to take one of the rock's shots. the best right hand in history is marciano's right hand landing on jersey joe walcott, who actually hit his best years late in his career. i think alot of people do write off wlad, but i think he really is that good, but he hasn't found his joe frazier yet.

 

C'mon man... I love Rocky Marciano just as much as the next guy... but at 185 pounds... he doesn't stand a chance. It isn't even fair to Marciano to compare him. Great fighter... but leave him in his own era. The man only had a reach of 67", and would be suffering a height disadvantage that is unheard of. On top of that... his style would just lead him to catching a horrible beating. Put Marciano in there against someone that makes more sense... like a Light Heavyweight... or even a cruiserweight... which he would have actually been a small cruiser.

 

Liston while not being large by todays standards, had some good things going for him. First, heavy handed as he was, he still put his punches together with pretty good speed. Also, he had an 84 `` wing span. And the biggest fist of any fighter in history. I don`t think Vlad could handle a rugged grizzled vet like Liston. Vitali, is stronger, more awkward and more durable. And I think he would be a problem for Liston. Toney, Arreola, Peter all would have troubloe with the `Bear`...

 

But you are taking some EXAMPLE fight. I can find you an example for everything. What matters is the general trend.

And even in YOUR example Frazier couldn't KO Ali.

I didn't have the time now to run through my whole database so I just ran through 45000 fights:

The result is as following:

Taller beats Smaller approx 2:1
Heavier beats Lighter approx in 2:1
Reachier beats Shorter approx 2.5:1

Taller+Heavier+Reacher beats Smaller+Lighter+Shorter in approx 2.5:1 fights (you cannot simply multiply the values, because usually taller is already heavier and reachier).

I hope this slows down this nonsense that size doesn't matter.

 

He would lie on his back like a bug, unable to get up with his tiny arms.

 

He had 25 siblings???
Thank you, Jesus, thank you lord, who the fu*k is watching over the sheep?
That's the problem with this world!
Rest in peace, Sonny.

 

1) Noone at 185 lbs would challenge Wlad. When was the last time a 199 lbs cruiser challenged Wlad?
2) Where is this idea coming from that non-heavy can challenge a heavy? I come across this opinion from time to time but I couldn't find it in the official regulations. For every weight class there are minimum limits.

But this is exactly what comparisons are doing nowadays: They compare Marciano to Lennox or Wlad. If you compare Marciano with Wlad then you have to compare how Marciano competed against 200+ heavies, not how Marciano competed against 180+ cruisers.

With the same right you could compare Roy Jones to Wlad. You would say: Look how many opponents Roy KOed (he has a decent KOratio), look how fast Roy is. Yet noone does it. Why? Because Marciano has been CALLED a heavy once, and Roy hasn't (except once).

I don't doubt that Marciano is a top boxer for a p4p toplist. But not on a heavyweight toplist with Lennox or Wlad. These are different definitions of "heavyweight".

Imagine in the future they make a 250lbs limit for the heavyweights. Marciano fought 1x a 250+ guy. Now you put him on this list just because ONCE he has been called heavyweight? You upvalue all of his fights onto a 250lbs toplist? And then some fans would come along and say "Marciano was the best heavy ever... look, unbeaten in 49 fights." I don't think that's the correct thing to do.

All of Marciano's fights below 200 count for his cruiserweight record.

Just as Langford's fights below 175lbs (100 fights!) count for his LHW (or lower) record. I am not willing to credit Langford with 300+ heavyweight fights just because he got fatter.

Look, it's the same stuff with Toney here:
Toney gets fatter and fatter and suddenly ALL OF HIS fights below 200 count as heavyweight just because Toney is heavyweight? Toney would have one of the best heavyweight record just because he is fat now. You have to draw a line somewhere and count fights below-200 as cruiserfights. Just as Wlad cannot upvalue his record by beating 180 lbs guys, Marciano cannot make himself a heavyweight by beating a few 200+ guys.

He won 12. Only 12. Of which only 2 are against better opponents. With 2 meaningful heavyweight fights you cannot be on any heavyweight toplist, even if he beat Joe Louis, just like Puritty wouldn't be on a heavyweight toplist just because of beating Wlad. But I am NOT COMPARING Marciano with Puritty here.

Yes, Louis is a different caliber than Marciano. But I don't want to go into specific Louis fights especially in a Sonny Liston thread.

If neither Wlad nor Vitali could KO him, I don't think Louis could. But I didn't think too much about such a matchup yet, so I am willing to change my position any time.

 

Yes. The only person who could possibly beat him would be Vitali Klitschko on account of his size and strength.

 

The debate goes on

 

COME ON Sonny Liston only ruled his division for 2 FIGHTS.. Pleasem hed be obliterated by either Klit with his little 6'1 frame, Hell Chagaev would give him trouble

 

**** you!

 

Did I lie, or say somethin off base ?

 

no,just something stupid.

 

anyway how would people have expected that little guy 210/215 pound evander holyfield have did with the klits?