Would the Ali Holmes fought have beaten ANY heavyweight champion?

Its hard to gague because Holmes was the best HW in the world. Ali was probably worse in 1981 but did better cause he was fighting Berbick thus addition by subtraction. Ali has a substantial size advantage over all these guys. One he really wasn't used to having at this point.

I'm not dying on this hill but he asked for champs the Ali who fought Holmes could have beaten and I gave a list of names.

 

The Ali of the second Spinks fight beats Ingo quite handily

 

Normally I would say if you open the door to non-linear champs, the answer is probably yes, & it still might be…but God, Ali looked awful, even allowing for a prime Holmes being opposite him. I don’t think he beats anyone who was legitimately the champ of the division.

 

He’s going to beat prime Walcott?

 

I’m going to revise my initial post after some thought. Because of the situation with the thyroid medication … people are not stopping to consider that, again that not happening would not have changed the outcome but it happening literally rendered Ali barely able to raise his arms … I don’t think the Ali of 10/2/80, on that particular night, to the exclusion of any other night in recorded history, would have been able to defeat anyone who held a heavyweight championship belt and probably a goodly number of great fighters who didn’t. Prime Jerry Quarry or Oscar Bonavena would have beaten him down, for example.

 

& I don’t think you’d need guys of that calibre, either.

 

I’ll go there, Chuvalo would have beaten the hell out of that Ali.

The Berbick fight was a better indication of what Ali had left, which wasn’t much. If he hadn’t listened to the Nation of Islam quack, that’s probably what we’d have gotten against Holmes, and he might have made it to the end getting beaten down in something like Louis-Charles fashion and losing a near shutout decision.

 

Chuvalo yes, I’d agree.

 

I honestly can't see it.

 

He can’t get Johansson out of there, so what’s he going to do? Produce enough to win a decision? No chance.

 

Yeah I was baffled by that as well. Ali truth be told didn’t look much better than their first fight. The stark contrast imo was how bad Spinks looked compared to their first bout.

 

I feel like that's a major downplaying of Tubbs, alongside men like Tate, Weaver, Walcott, and Sharkey, too.

 

I'll say no. If you had said the Ali from Berbick, then he'd have a chance against certain lackluster or just straight up bad fighters, as he did give Trevor a decent fight- But then again, he was inconsistent. Good win over Page, then loses to Snipes and Gordon, you see my point.
If fighters aren't at their A game and Ali is, then he's got a much better chance at winning out.

 

Ok, the Berbick version is peak helpless Ali of all the two versions we got to see, he still isn't winning a round against the best of Walcott. Go watch the first Louis fight to refresh your memory, that guy's reflexes were nuts. Sharkey put down Tommy Loughran, I don't think he'll struggle to out-point Ali because of a size discrepancy. However, you did make me think about Berbick Ali vs Louis Sharkey or Charles of the Alvin Green fight. Who's gonna end up holding the WBCTE belt?