Would tyson have always lost to holyfield in 91 "?

To say with confidence that Holy beats Mike in 91 just because he beat him in 96 shows a lack of appreciation of how much Tyson declined post prison. Those years in prison finished what Buster started.
He lost his speed for one.You have to appreciate that speed,timing and movement were his great assests pre prison.
I'm 87.4% sure Tyson wins in '91.

 

Disagree here. The fight would've been closer, and yes Tyson had a better chance of winning, but what you're are skirting around is the mental warfare Tyson wouldn't be winning. His aura had already taken a big hit after Douglas. Mike himself admits that affected him. Fighting a hungry, I'm not intimidated by you, you won't faze me fighter with better skills... This would negatively affect Tyson mentally. Holyfield was never scared of Tyson, and Tyson would realize this right from the get go. Tyson himself wasn't the beast of the 80's by that point. His technique was slipping as well as his dedication to training. Sure, he'd likely get up for a Holyfield fight, but that still wouldn't improve his technique not being as good. He did a lot more headhunting and looking for the one shot KO. That is never going to work against Holyfield. I honestly believe going into the fight Tyson would be having doubts he could beat Holyfield, and I think the pressure and magnitude of the event would negatively affect Tyson mentally and physically. Holyfield was just wrong for Tyson for the most part.

 

What a fight this could have been. Its a travesty that we never got to see it. I truly believe the prison time took so much away from Tyson in every department, skill wise, character wise, strength wise, mentality wise an every other wise you can think of. By 1996 Tyson was still a good fighter compared to other heavyweights, but was a complete and utter shadow of his former self, the fact he was able to win the title back after a 4 year and two month time period between the second Ruddock fight and the Mcneeley fight was testament to how great a fighter he had been, and how good he still was, but he wasn't good enough to beat an all time great. Holyfield, although his best days were behind him, he was up for the fight, he had never wanted to win a fight so badly and was able to put it all together for one last great great performance, Holyfield was at the emotional and physical peak of his career, he had some tough fights leading up to it which Tyson hadnt, that played a big factor, and despite public opinion Holyfield was in excellent shape both physically and mentally.
(There was nothing the matter with his heart before anyone mentions it, he was given the ALL CLEAR, there was nothing wrong with his heart what-so-ever, and it showed in the fight).

 

Some posters forget how much Holyfield has declined in terms of speed and workrate in 96th.

Their actual fight wasn't a match between prime Holy vs past-prime Tyson.

They were TWO fighters who were well past their primes in 96th.

Anything could've happened if they met in 91, but don't forget Holy also wasn't the same fast 'energizer' he was in late 80s-early 90s.

 

Tyson THEN really wanted the fight,Don king and moreso DUVA Holyfields promoter skitted around Tyson before the injury. Tyson had a clear mean streak in him then...not so much in his comeback barring biting ppl. He did his work in the ring and was by far more dangerous in the actual rule sets.

Ruddock and co. were never scared either,the big MYTH is you didn't have to fear Tyson well....go look at some of his k.o victims who was over confident....Holmes/ Frazier/ Ruddock/ Biggs/ Robolta/ Spinks / Bruno/ Williams...all these guys thought they would win. i already gave the closest thing to knocking out holyfield which was Cooper ...proof right there in the same year of that fight. you compare closest to fighter scenerios and my previous posts ,i cant see Holy winning.

 

Tyson was no longer the peek a boo Tyson of the 80's under D'Amato training. However as GV
pointed out Holyfield body had not physically adapted to HW in 91 .If Cooper could rock Holyfield
then so could Tyson. Tyson would finish what Cooper couldn't. Tyson by stoppage in 4.

 

No. Bruno came back from ko lost to Bonecrusher and Witherspoon and Holyfield had a way better chin
and recuperative powers than Bruno. Tyson would have fought Ruddock and you know what happened
there. Holyfield vs Bowe might have been delayed by year but by this time Holyfield would have been
more physically and mentally prepared. If met in rematch can't say what year Tyson would have
deteriorated and Holyfield better prepared so he wins rematch.

 

No worries. That's why you posts are always intriguing they always lead to a wide response of answers.
Nobody can be right or wrong as we can only speculate and try to back up our answers.

 

Acting like you REALLY want a fight you don't really want is nothing new in this sport. This has happened hundreds of times in the past, and will happen again. I don't go by how Tyson appeared. He appeared to be a lot of things that he wasn't really underneath. And? None of those fighters you mentioned were even in the same stratosphere as Holyfrield as a fighter at that time. Ruddock is the closest, and Mike went life and death with him the second time. Did you just say Spinks wasn't scared of Tyson LOL. Now I know you're intentionally being disingenuous. The simple fact of the matter is, Tyson had already been exposed at that point and his confidence was wavering. Something he admits, no matter how much you believed his posturing. Not only that, but he issue you skirted around was, he technique was no longer as good. He wasn't moving his head as much and was mostly headhunting. He wasn't setting up his punches as well. These are all things we can plainly see, and things Holyfield would've exploited. Holyfield that same year got hit with some bombs from Foreman and they didn't do a thing to him. So I don't for one second believe Holyfield couldn't have taken Tyson's power at all by this stage of his career. Holyfield was simply better than Tyson at this point in their careers, both mentally and physically. Tyson apologists like to act like that wasn't the case when it unquestionably was the case.

 

Holy was 210 lbs in 1991 when Bert Cooper came on as a second alternate for Tyson and 216 lbs in '96. Six pounds of muscle isn't nothing, but it isn't that much either for a guy that size. Helped his strength and power somewhat, but he had lost more in speed, stamina, reflexes and timing.

Tyson himself was 6 lbs heavier in 1996 than when he destroyed Biggs in 1987 (one of his best performances), does that mean he was better when he met Holy?

 

I like what emanuel steward said about tyson vs holyfield

"
Holyfield would have always been a tough fight for Mike. You have to remember Mike was still a small heavyweight. His biggest factor was when he fought guys who were either scared or with some of the guys who were slow, he could get off fast and he compensated for his size by using speed and power. When he fought big guys who were not afraid of him and who had a certain amount of skills he always had problems. Going back to “Quick” Tillis, Mitch Green, Tony Tucker, “Bonecrusher”, and Lennox. So when you look at what he accomplished being such a small guy it’s amazing because even though he was fighting as a heavyweight he was still a very small man. When he didn’t have the advantage of the intimidation factor, he always had problems with those big guys.

Holyfield would have always been a problem for him. I know from the amateurs when I was involved with them in 1984 when we were in the Olympic Training Camp. They sparred and Evander always had his number so to say. Evander has always had this special aggressiveness when he fought guys who were like bully type guys like Ricky Womack and Mike Tyson and all of those type of guys. When I was training Evander I think in 1993 for the second fight with Riddick Bowe, even though we were training for Bowe he continuously spoke of fighting Mike because he was obsessed with wanting to fight Mike Tyson. Mike at the time, if I remember, was in prison.

He said, “Emanuel, the fight that I want more than anything is Mike Tyson because everybody is afraid of Mike but when you start putting pressure back on Mike he is not that tough”.

Eventually when they made that fight I told Don King, “Man, that’s the worst fight you could have made!”

He said, “You got to be kidding! We’re just worried about Mike killing him”.

I said, “That’s the one fight that Mike definitely doesn’t need because Evander’s whole legacy and everything in his mind is based on him beating Mike Tyson so that is one fight he will never lose”.

That’s why I always knew it was going to be a tough fight for Mike because Evander had so much almost like hatred for Mike when he fought him for both fights."