Would tyson have had a melt down against 74 ali?

Good post apart from the last bit. Tyson in the first couple of rounds of the Holyfield rematch was already looking better than he did in the first fight and it would have being mighty interesting to see how the fight would have turned out minus Holyfields butting and Tysons biting.

I don't think the Ali of 74 would have beaten that Tyson.

 

Ali would have gotten under his skin and beaten him.... But Tyson would have hurt Ali, he was accurate and destructive his precision vs Foremans is why he hurts Ali and Tyson was more powerful than Frazier but Ali was tough enough

 

Prime vs Prime I think Tyson beats Ali. Any other version of Tyson vs any other Ali will be stacked in Ali's favour. Ali will probably beat him most other times during comparable phases in their careers.

 

Sangria is living in a dream world.

Ali did not dance primarily because the ring canvas in Zaire was so excessively padded making every side to side movement exhausting. Plus he was fighting the best ring cutter in boxing history.

Under normal ring conditions Ali was very ready to move and box for 15 rounds.

Tyson was always very mentally fragile. Not Ali. Certainly Ali would bother Tyson since quite frankly Tyson could not match Ali's verbal capabilities. All he could do is take it.

Ali stops Tyson in 10 rounds. After 2-3 initial rounds Tyson realizes he can't win and just goes through the motions until the ref stops the fight.

 

You're a tool. An absolute worthless troll.

"Ali wouldn't get two words out of his mouth reciting his third-grade level poems and his pro wrestler shtick when Mike Tyson would light into him.

Tyson grew up in Brownsville when it was one of the worst places to live on earth. He was surrounded by gangbangers, gun violence and death when he was a child. R1dd1ck Bowe grew up in the same neighborhood as Tyson and recalled everyone making fun of Tyson when he was in grade school because Tyson was worse off than everyone. They called Tyson "Bummy Mike" because he was so bad off.

And Tyson was violent since childhood. He'd ask old women if he could carry their grocery bags, and when they fumbled for their purses, he'd punch them in the head, knock them out and rob them.

Joe Frazier wouldn't punch an old lady in the head if his life depended on it. That's not something that would even enter his mind.

And compared to Mike Tyson, Muhammad Ali was Urkel. Even the scary Nation of Islam were a bunch of guys who wore suits and ties and preached starting their own businesses.

Ali wouldn't have survived in Mike Tyson's world. A kid stole Ali's bike, and Ali went to the police to file a report.

A kid killed one of Tyson's pigeons, and Tyson nearly killed that kid. He didn't file a police report.

If you think that the real Tyson was the guy Jim Jacobs was getting Diet Pepsi commercials for ... and his tough guy outbursts were just an "act" ... you're the one who is being naive.

The clean-cut, polite Mike Tyson of 1985/1986 lasted about a year because it wasn't real ... and Tyson couldn't hold it together because it wasn't him.

Nobody ever called Muhammad Ali a f@ggot and mocked him, and told them they were going to make Ali their b1tch ... and then charged him and started a fight with him.

Ali was from a different time. He had great heart and great talent ... but he was never in a million years going to "intimidate" Mike Tyson outside the ring. All of Ali's insults came with wink and a smile at the end.

Many of Tyson's insults ended in a brawl and his arrest.

And Ali loved to insult his opponents, because they rarely insulted him back. But Oscar Bonavena got under Ali's skin by just calling him a "cheekin" (chicken) a 100 times. Tyson would've had Ali reeling with some of the smack he and his buddies threw around. And had Tyson followed up those insults by actually punching Ali or biting him outside the ring, like he did with some opponents, Ali wouldn't have known what to do. Ali wasn't a street fighter ever.

Ali would've been completely out of his league. Hell, forget Mike Tyson. Tyson Fury today is more "ghetto" than Muhammad Ali was. Ali would've been shocked by the shat coming out of the mouths of people like Mike Tyson.

When the bell rang for their fight, the guy whose blood was boiling would've been Ali. Not Tyson." - Dubblechin

One of the best posts from the forum. Thanks Dubblechin!!

 

And Sonny Liston's background was even worse than Tyson's...and he lost to Ali twice and was totally mentally defeated by Ali before the fight even started. So the idea that Tyson's rough upbringing compared to Ali's gives him some sort of advantage over Ali means nothing.

 

You're completely missing the point.

 

I disagree with Dubblechin's post because confident men just don't give a flying **** is someone's from the "ghetto" or any of that ****. Who gives a **** ? You get in the ring and you fight. It's personal character that makes a champion tough, not whether he came from the worst part of the worse slum.

Beating up grannies don't mean ****. And it's unfair to Tyson to even bring that **** up as some sort of "tough cred" as a fighter.

I'm not saying Tyson would be intimidated by Ali but that's more likely than the reverse, since Ali seemed more confident in his skin. And he did have the fastest mouth. Tyson seemed emotional and insecure.

Prime Tyson's intimidating to us mere mortals because he was such a badass boxer. He was mean and devastating in the boxing ring.
I don't think he was a truly bad kid. He did some bad things, had a bad upbringing, that's all.

That seems to be a popular fantasy of his mostly white fans who have some weird fantasies about him being the baddest n-word on the block ever. He's become this cartoon fantasy figure for white boys (now mostly in their 30s to 50s, I guess).

We've all seen the footage of Tyson crying his eyes out before the Olympic trials fight. He was a highly sensitive kid still at 17. Even to this day he's extremely emotional for a male. That's just the way he is.

Tyson himself has spoken about how he lived with an identity crisis during his prime years.
He was an insecure kid who needed love and found it in D'amato and boxing. Then he was always trying to live up to an image of a great fighter, a killer, a "Jack Dempsey" or a "Sonny Liston", chasing an image of an old-time fighter who he so revered. Inside the ring, he achieved that, became a world champion. Outside the ring he was still a damaged youth who didn't really know who he was.

 

I think Prime Tyson may run through 1974 Ali.

He was faster, hungrier and better conditioned than '74 Foreman.

He probably wouldn't gas as fast and he would pound Ali on the ropes.

Tyson by stoppage.

The second Holyfield fight Tyson was mentally damaged. He bit Holyfield's ear for christ's sake.

I wouldn't pick that Tyson to beat any Ali through the second Spinks fight.

 

All Sangria proved was that Tyson was a bully. Punching Grandma does not prove toughness nor does growing up in the projects. What's toughness? Taking everything from a great fighter, being utterly beat up and after 14 rounds with both eyes closed and unable to see and completely spent in a losing fight STILL wanting to fight that 15th round. That was Joe Frazier acting like a great fighter. Can you imagine Tyson ever portraying that level of toughness? You can't as he never did nor was he capable of it.

 

I am not sure post prison tyson manages well against any HW ATG apart form the genuinely weakest H2H ones.

 

Personally, I always thought Ali would have had Tyson beaten before they even entered the ring. Nothing to do with intimidation, Ali would get under Tyson's skin. He would make Tyson doubt himself which means Tyson already lost.

 

It's the kind of **** you expect from a dirty smack fiend. And serious criminals shun people who do that. Or they used to.

The whole idea that Ali's opponents like Frazier and Foreman and Liston were less intidimating (or less "badass" outside the ring) than Tyson makes no sense.

Liston straight up slapped young Clay around the face and called him a ***** (some accounts say he pulled a gun) while he was playing craps with his associates.

Liston was a bad man. He'd been to jail for breaking a policeman's leg, he'd also taken the cop's gun, and absorbed the cops best shots with nightsticks. This was when he was a contender. He did his time then left Philadelphia when the cops told him they'd kill him.
He worked for labour racketeers as a strike-breaking goon.

None of this helped Liston against Ali.

George Foreman was a teenage mugger too. Didn't help him against Ali.

 

Tyson was the most intimidating boxer of all time, not Liston or Ali. I don't think it would matter though. Ali'so nonexistent body attack and propensity to get nailed with left hooks would matter.

 

Intimidating UNTIL he gets into a real fight. Then the intimidator became intimidated.