Would Tyson have surpassed Marciano's record if he stayed on track?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by AngryBirds, Jan 24, 2023.

Would he?

  1. Yes

    8 vote(s)
    18.2%
  2. No

    27 vote(s)
    61.4%
  3. Maybe

    9 vote(s)
    20.5%
  1. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    We know.... that's the point of the thread.
     
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  2. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don't think it's "very unlikely" he beats Holyfield or the other two at all if he stayed on track. Bowe didn't have the defense to do anything with Bowe, and I highly doubt a pre-Manny Lewis beats Tyson. I'm admittedly torn between a prime Tyson and Holyfield but I definitely give Tyson a much better chance than "very unlikely".
     
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  3. The Long Count

    The Long Count Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I voted no and I’m big supporter of Mike. He lost at 37 and 0. Had he beat Douglas he gets to 38 and 0. He would need 11 fights to tie and 12 to break. That’s minimum of 4 straight years at 3 fights a year (he was pretty active) and no injury cancellations (he did tend to get hurt in training occasionally) He was never going to last that long at his size and weight. He would have to cut through - Holyfield, Bowe, Old George, Lewis, during those 12 future fights. Someone gets him imo by 93.
     
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  4. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Holyfield and Lewis would also come at him again down the track. Even if he beat them the first time they'd rise again as they turned into elite fighters. Lewis would come back improved and Holyfield would as well, i think. That's if he beat him the first time.

    It's a hard road.
     
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  5. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    They'd likely come at him down the track and likely even beat him (particularly Lewis) but I'm not sure they'd do so before they reached 50-0. I also don't think Tyson is "very unlikely" to win against Holy, Lewis, and Bowe. Holy and Lewis are close to pick ems and Tyson is a flat out significant favorite against Bowe.
     
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  6. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    TLC made the point he'd need 12 more wins post Douglas. Holyfield was next up so he'd still need 11 after that. 3 fights a year with all things going well so that's not far off 4 years. I reckon Lewis and Holyfield would both comfortably force their way back into the ring with him by then and if either put up a tough fight first up they'd be back sooner rather than later.

    It's a tough tough ask and an interesting scenario.
     
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  7. Mr Stagger Lee

    Mr Stagger Lee Member Full Member

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    He was too limited as was the division at that point. Better fighters were stepping up, he was an easy fight to watch and learn.
     
  8. Tockah

    Tockah F-GOAT Full Member

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    It may be controversial but as I see it, Bowe will do to the hypothetical Tyson of this thread, the way Tokyo Douglas did Tyson. Bowe has all the same tools as Douglas but to the nth degree. Holyfield and Lewis I think a prime Tyson could defeat, especially a greener Lennox. A younger Holyfield would take Tyson the distance for certain.
     
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  9. Vic The Gambler

    Vic The Gambler Active Member Full Member

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    He’d have to get it done quickly before firstly his explosive powers faded…100mph tornadoes blow themselves out relatively quickly…and also before Lewis matured into the beast he became. Oh and he and his team would need to find a way to avoid Bowe.

    And then there’d still be Holyfield!
    Good Lord, even for prime and peak Tyson the traps awaiting him in the 1990s would be too dangerous and too frequent for him to get to 50-0 in my opinion.
     
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  10. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Perhaps a counter argument,would Marciano have gone undefeated against Tyson's opposition might be pertinent?
     
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  11. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I doubt it. He might defeat them all in one-offs (pre- Douglas at least) but the strain of consistently fighting larger heavyweights would wear on him quickly imho
     
  12. Blofeld

    Blofeld Member Full Member

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    I feel posters are not taking into the account that if Tyson had stayed focused he would have developed as a fighter. The OP is proposing Mike stays as mean and lean as his early days. Meaning he would not have become the simple slugger addicted to his power he became but honed his boxing skills. It is also worth remembering Tyson had a huge psychological edge before his loss to Douglas, who is to say that if this was still intact he would not have intimidated Lewis, Holyfield and Bowe the same way? Bowe wasn't exactly keen to jump in the ring with Lewis, I can't imagine him being that eager to fight an unbeaten Tyson who had added new skills to his arsenal, in this fantasy alternate history. While Tyson is a far greater fighter than Nigel Benn I remember how Nigel adapted his earlier style for a more focused boxing approach in Eubank II. Tyson with his phenomenal speed and underrated boxing skills could have evolved. Also while at a natural size disadvantage it would not be the first time a short squat ball of muscle chopped down a towering tree with a focused body attack.

    Given the trouble Bowe had with Holyfield and given how Lewis was KO'd twice in the early rounds by McCall and Raham I give a peak Tyson a strong chance. I also see him winning against Holyfield at his peak. I am not even a huge Tyson fan really just my thoughts.

    If he won a couple of super fights then with careful match making he could have gone the route of Holmes in his last few years, keep in mind Spinks was perceived by Larry as an easy fight. He would possibly let the title fragment to avoid dangerous mandatories and defend his portion to 50 before retiring, possibly no longer the best in the world but unbeaten.
     
  13. lone star

    lone star Member Full Member

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    Come on. Be honest. Does Marciano beat any of Tyson’s opponents from Berbick to Douglas. Would you put money on it. I wouldn’t. Not against any of them.
     
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  14. White Bomber

    White Bomber Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Tyson went 35-0 with Rooney and the Catskill team. He added another 2 wins to that after he fired Rooney, although he didn't look as good. So that's 37-0 before losing to Douglas.
    So he only needed to win 13 more fights to beat Marciano's record.
    Had he stayed with the Catskill team, he'd have been more busy, fighting 2-3 times a year.
    IMO he'd have beaten Douglas with proper training and Rooney in his corner.
    So he'd be 38-0.
    He also would have flattened a much smaller and less experienced Holyfield. That makes it 39-0.
    He then beats Ruddock. He's 40-0.
    Most likely, a green Lewis will be next. At this stage of their careers, Tyson KO's him.
    He then beats old Foreman. So he's 42-0.
    Then comes his biggest test yet: a prime focused Bowe. Bowe will give him huge trouble, but Tyson weathers the storm and wins. So he's 43-0.
    He'll then beat the likes of Morrison, Mercer, Stewart, Moorer, McCall.
    He's at 48-0. He takes Bruno on again, wins.
    Then probably Seldon. That's 50-0.
    Mike retires after that as the undisputed GOAT with around 20 title defenses.
     
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  15. White Bomber

    White Bomber Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Holyfield would be too small in 91 and Tyson would blast through him.
    Lewis too green, Tyson blasts him too.
    Bowe is the biggest threat and question mark.
     
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