Would USSR boxers have changed the HW golden age of the 70s?

I think the Americans would have been just fine becasue the USA amateur program was at its peak. Boxing was far more popular in this country at that time and just about every American city had multiple free city sponsored gyms loaded with legit boxing trainers.

Boxing was nowhere near as popular in eastern Europe in those days so the talent pool was not the same in the Soviet union as it is today in Russia, Ukraine, etc.

Cuba, on the other hand was a whole nother animal. They had some legit dudes for sure that would have had an impact.

 

As a USSR loving communist got to say no. I think the USSR was focused on chess and olympic medals. Even if not look at how many Euros and Brits were able to break into the top 10. Most realistic outcome is 1 guy is like 9th or 10 every era because thats what all the other boxing powers were doing. A HW had to be one of the best HWs in region history to just get a shot and there was really just room for 1 at a time. With the Soviets in the mix the competition for those few non American title shots would be even more difficult.

As we can see today the culture was centered around Olympic medals and even if Soviets could go pro they would spend more time in the amateur world and go pro later. They'd have less time to break through that quagmire.

I think Cuba would have outperformed the USSR the only problem is they would be using the same regional pipeline as the Americans. And if they weren't they'd be easy to ignore as was the case with much of the rest of the world. So they were in a no win situation there. But I think a GOAT kind of talent was more likely to emerge fighting in the American regional circuit because if they were that good and beat established names the US press would then have to pay attention to them. While a guy like Wlad Klitschko might never get his chance if boxing in the US wasn't "dying".

 

Yes, I am saying that boxing grew in popularity in those countries. I don't have any true data other than you can see a clear shift in amateur dominance that started in the late 90s. USA boxing was pretty dominant in 76', 84',88', 92' and 96'. After 96 there definitely was a shift with old Soviet countries having independent success with Ukraine and Kazakhstan in particular. Hell, even in 96' Vassily Jirov won the Val Baker after beating Antonio Tarver. That was the start of the changing of the guard. Ukraine has a far better national boxing program than USA boxing nowadays with a clear focus on development from a young age.

 

As a hater everything with the slightest faint of Communism, and one who refuses to paint anything a shade darker than Parlor Pink, the HW lineage would have been different were the Slavic peoples allowed to compete en masse in the 1970's. Ali's clowning days of the mid to latter 70's would have been taken over by Ivan for sure.

 

What do you like about communist

 

Yes the heavyweight landscape changes significantly, but Ali still would've been the best of the era

 

No, Frazier/Foreman squashed the Soviets in 64/68 at the Olympics, they also would have squashed any of them in the Pros some years later

 

I don't think that style would particularly translate well into the landscape of the 70s.

 

I think so too. When you are working all day in a field or factory for a bowl of beet soup and a crust of bread, the amounts of money available to a pro boxer would have seemed unreal. Guaranteed there would have been a mini-gold rush into boxing by pugnacious slavs.

 

Not East European fighters as much but the Cubans for sure. Seems to me E Europeans come from hardier circumstances than average American which makes for tough people. But thing is they caught up physically to a degree to the Black fighters when the training got more scientific with the workouts nutrition supplements etc. in the 80s and 90s. That coincided with their initial integration from communist career amateurs to the professional game.
One man’s opinion.

 

I think the only dent the Soviet Bloc fighters from this era make in the heavyweight division is that we’d have sprinkled in a few different European champs in an era of the Juergen Blins and Richard Dunns. It was a fairly weak era for Euro big boys, perhaps excepting the skilled-but-reluctant Joe Bugner, who at least showed well at times vs top world opposition.

As noted above, these EE guys weren’t a dominant force in the Olympics yet, even below the American level (the U.S. was the major boxing amateur power of the time, especially among upper weights). That’s ot the be-all/end-all of what happens at the pro level, but it’s an indicator of the maturity and progress of the Soviet boxing program in the era.

That said, surely a couple guys come along who can find a place among the Euro champs by topping a Alfredo Evangelista/Lorenzo Zanon/Lucien Rodriguez type. And that alone probably results in a title shot as the B side to an Ali, Frazier or Foreman.

I fancy Muhammad wanting to fight in Moscow if Don King/Bob Arum can scare up the necessary rubles from the host country (there wouldn’t have been a non-governmental promoter in that time due to the system) as it would have made for good TV in America (leaning into the Cold War Showdown promotional angle).

The Cuban Teofilo Stevenson might have been a different kettle of fish, but we’ll never know of course. Should a prospect like him defect, it becomes more about how he handles freedom after throwing off the shackles of control of an oppressive government in more of a Third World environment. We saw later how a guy with great physical prowess, Jorge Luis Gonzalez, collapsed under the pampering he got fighting it the U.S. (wasn’t he living in a casino with all the temptation that comes with that kind of environment?).

It’s hard to grasp unless you’ve been around it or know someone who has, what a big deal a grocery store full of food (and junk food) means to someone who grew up without the ability to walk down an aisle filled with cases of beer or a bakery full of sweets and such. I know someone in a much more recent time who had a managerial interest in a Cuban and he ballooned up. Didn’t have the ‘I have to win to make it’ hunger or desire because he thought he won the lottery just being able to gobble fast-food burgers to his heart’s desire.

Maybe the right manager/promoter with the right ‘babysitter’ living with the fighter to keep him from falling prey to every temptation, or the right fighter who carried over that level of discipline, could pull it off … but it would be very hit or miss and not only about ability and experience/skill demonstrated at the amateur level.

 

The big what if, would be if Teofilo Stevenson turned pro after winning the 1972 Olympics. Let's say he gets trained by Futch or Archie Moore or George Benton. Because you can't just walk into the Pros from the AMs and you need pro style training. Let's say he has a reasonable chin. In that case you'd expect a peak Stevenson to beat Ali in 1975 or 1976. He could possibly KO Frazier. Foreman is harder to say, I think Stevenson was technically better and a devastating puncher in the AMs.

 

Stevenson was the greatest and different specimen to the rest. 6'5, athletic and fast, 1 punch KO power, impressive bodypunching for an amateur. There are exceptions too. Luis Ortiz did well, considering he's very likely to be 5-10 years older than his claimed age. His first recorded bout is in 1999 against the great Felx Savon. Now there's no way Felix Savon was his very first contest, he had to be boxing for years to get up to that level. Which inicates he's older

You also have Rigondeaux, Casemeyor who were elite and the latter avoided