Would Vitali have beaten Lennox?

Clothes for a man Lewis size could be 3 pounds. A meal for a man's Lewis size could be an additional 2. Let's face he, he wasn't stepping on the scale to make weight. 250 lbs is a fine weight for Lewis who stood 6'5" tall. I would say Lewis best weight was 245 pounds. Fighters almost always gain a little weight as they hit their 30's.

You could. Its not just the age, its the amount of blows taken. Was the Mason fight that tough? Holy didn't give Lewis a rough match. Lewis was KO'd quickly, he did not take a lot of punishment. In many of his fights vs big time punchers, Lewis was hardly hit ( Tua, Tyson. MCcall re-match ). Wlad is the same way. So it Hopkins. So was Calzahge. So is Mayweather. Few wars = a longer shelf life in boxing.

Since he turned pro in Nov 1996, I would say no. I also think Vitali improved a bit as his career progressed post 2003, and would have won the re-match six months later.

 

subtracting five lbs would still put him at one of his highest weights and very close to the weight that he was KO'd by Rahman at. Regardless of what the numbers looked like on the scale, he was old, deconditioned and inactive going into that fight. No matter how one spins it, slices it, or dices it, it doesn't change those facts.

Holy and Lewis traded quite a few blows. Mason wasn't a war but hit him with good shots. Bruno rocked his world. Rahman and McCall knocked him out. Mercer gave him fits. he also had a long amateur career. As I said before, I don't really judge his deterioration by the wear and tear he sustained given that he didn't exactly have a Muhammad Ali type career, but to say he was fresh is a gross inaccuracy.

I'll rephrase it then.. What if this were a prime for prime matchup between the best Lewis and the best Vitali? Would Vitali have been so lucky then?

You mean after the 4 year layoff? Or in his performances with a 265 lb Kirk Johnson, mediocre Danny Williams and a 38 year old off for 13 month Sanders who arguably had him down ( though ruled a slip? )

With all due respect, you make a lot of concessions for Vitali klitscho, ie, taking the fight on short notice, having the fight stopped too early, not getting a rematch etc.. You make no concessions for Lewis who was 37 years old, off for 12 months, out of shape, also took the fight on short notice, yet still won the fight and legitimately. Fights have been stopped due to less severe cuts before and what's more, ones that were caused by headbutts and not punches like the one that Lewis landed. Had it continued would Vitali have won? Maybe and maybe not. Rounds 4 thru 6 were clearly Lewis rounds, and Vitali was looking quite tired and discouraged as well. Jumping up in outrage that the fight was stopped isn't very convincing either. Lots of men have disagreed with stoppages, feeling that they were able to continue. Doesn't mean it was in their best interest to do so. That's precisely why referees, corner men, and ringside doctors have that power.. Not the fighters. Should Vitali have gotten a rematch? I think so. His fans wanted to see it for sure. Does it hurt Lewis's legacy that he didn't give him one? Not really.. He had after all, won the fight and was already at the tail end of his career and had he beaten Vitali again, its likely Klitschko would have been deemed as " not that good" to begin with.. Would Vitali have won in a rematch? Maybe.. But I can say one thing however. its a good bet that Lewis would have been much better prepared the second time around.

 

I think Lewis was in as good condition as he could be for the Vitali fight.
He was about 5 lbs heavier than his previous career heaviest in the second McCall fight in 1997 oddly enough at 251. Not in this thread but others I have seen him described as fat, and that was certainly not the case. He looked fantastic.

[url]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/11/22/article-0-01E860DA0000044D-258_468x608.jpg[/url]


It was his career heaviest weigh in but can't really say for sure he was out of shape. He was gassed but it was possibly the most grueling fight of his career with Vitali's size and awkwardness forcing him into the aggressive pressure fighter role. I think he was at his career heaviest the same way Wlad was in the second Peter fight.

 

No Lewis would of stopped vitali late

 

I think he was not (at least not the way you mean). I think he was in the kind of condition a man who is almost 38 years old is in when he thinks he is fighting less than fit Kirk Johnson and is far from motivated as he had already climbed the final mountains of his career in defeating (albeit not prime versions) Holyfield and Tyson, facing David Tua, and having to comeback and handle the strain of rematching Rahman and taking care of business.

Whether you admit it or see it, Lennox at 38 or 39 (if there had been a rematch) was not in the physical condition he would need to be in to be able to win easily against a prime almost 32 year old Vitali Klitschko.

At 39, there is real doubt whether he could really buckle down and get into that kind of shape. Obviously, with a foot out the door as he was not in great shape - and knew he didn't need to be - for Kirk Johnson he wasn't able to convince himself that he could make the necessary effort for the rematch. Wisely, he retired. In the same condition (as the TKO6), he would have again had to go through fire to win. He very likely could have done it again. But, at the expense of his health. A 39 year old could get into the proper condition. BUT, the 39 year old Lennox Lewis who had been doing it since his youth did not want to sacrifice one more time.

How do you think the 39 year old Vitali Klitschko would have done against the 32 year old Lennox Lewis?

The first fight falls back to a couple salient points: Lennox didn't stop the fight. Lennox was able to continue. Lennox was nearly 38 years old and at the end of his motivation (as he had faced the VASTLY more difficult opposition during his heavyweight career than Vitali) and was the victor. Not much else matters.

 

Not to be a nitpicking ass, but Lewis was actually 37. Not 39. Nevertheless, I agree that he was at the end of his rope. Lewis was finished.

 

NP. But, read my post again.

I think I said he was almost 38 (9 weeks from 38 in the first fight). The "39" was the age he would have been in a rematch.


Cheers

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And, as to the thread's topic .. Vitali's eye made it a 100% SURE THING that if the docs had let it go .. he was leaving the ring horizontally. There was no way that Lewis would have let him off the hook. He had the momentum, he had an injured opponent, and had already weathered the biggest shots Vitali could muster. This fight was gonna be OVER (in another round or two).

 

-You are free to make any assumptions you wish about Lewis' psychological make up going into the fight but the man in the ring didn't appear to be in bad shape to my eyes. I believe Steward when he said Lewis had a great training camp that he didn't want to go to waste.

-My comments are limited to the fight that occured, not a fantasy rematch nor am I interested in your speculations regarding Lewis' inner thoughts. I've noticed many Lewis fans on these boards have a bad habit of this and I can't take it seroiusly. You don't know the man personally or have any idea what he was thinking in specific points in his life.

-Why do you think I'm interested in your speculative excuses for a rematch not occuring? I commented on the fight that happened.

-Would have been interesting. Vitali looked fantastic at 39, I believe he broke the HW compubox punch stat record at that age against Kevin Johnson.

-Thanks for sharing that but I'm still going to comment on whatever I feel like, and I believe he was in good condition as he could be for the Vitali fight. I don't for sure how hard he trained but I believe Steward and trust my eyes. It was reported at the time Lewis was in his finest shape since Holyfield and didn't want a great training camp to go to waste.

From ESPN: [url]http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6mSL-zlcGMUJ:assets.espn.go.com/boxing/news/2003/0606/1564465.html&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1[/url]

By Michael Katz


Kirk Johnson won't get his chance at Lennox Lewis. At least not yet.

A torn chest muscle suffered during a sparring sesion has forced Johnson to call off his June 21 bout against the heavyweight champ. The results of an MRI Thursday night in Houston revealed the injury, which will sideline Johnson from 4-6 weeks.

But that doesn't mean the card at the Staples Center in Los Angeles is off, despite very slow ticket sales.

Lewis was reportedly in his finest shape since his first meeting with Evander Holyfield and may not want to waste a training camp in the Poconos.

The most obvious replacement would be Vitali Klitschko, Lewis's mandatory WBC challenger, who was slated to face the undefeated Cedric Boswell on the June 21 undercard.

 

Magoo, Weight aside, Vitlai made Lewis look that way. Lewis himself called Vitali his toughest opponent, and he's right. If Lewis was in there with someone else, he would not have looked " old ". He was in there with a guy bigger than him, who happened to have skills.

Agreed on the Bruno and Mercer fights. Lewis was only had two swollen eyes in his career. Once vs Mercer, the other vs Vitali. For a 38 year old fighter, Lewis was not very punished, nor did he ever have major surgery.

I'll take the Vitlai who smashed Peter, or breezed through Arroela or Adamek over Lewis on his best night. The 4-2 card for all three judges is not a fluke. Vitali is better at landing more punches, and had the better chin and stamina
Lewis seldom had late round tko's, and did not have the durability to last in a long fight.

The preparation for the first and only match was in Lewis' favor, not Vitali's. Lewis was training for a 12 round match, Vitali was not. Vitali would know for sure he could out box Lewis in the re-match and hurt him. In addition Vitali felt somewhat robbed of a win. You'd better believe Vitali would train harder.

Vitali retired Lewis once the WBC ordered a re-match or Lewis would lose his title. The money was there for Lewis, and Lewis said he would do it, yet he balked.

It is also know that Lewis was trying to fight Kirk Johnson in Canada prior to the WBC ordered re-match! He was not retired, nor talking like a retired fighter.

As such its an exit stain on his legacy, because he did not follow through on what he said. You could say Lewis ducked a re-match.

 

Lewis was actually assumed to be retired before he announced he'd be fighting Kirk Johnson. People talk like he knew when to walk away, but he didn't, he was a little late. He'd been promising to retire for years, and it was understood that the Tyson fight was something to hang around for. ... and the hiccup against Rahman cause him to hang around a fight or a year longer.. But after those two issues were cleared up, Lewis was supposed to walk away .... but he couldn't. It's hard for a champion to walk away.
Lewis caught a break against Vitali. He won but it was a wake-up call.

 

I will say this I don't believe had Johnson beat Vitali, he would have retired. No other reason to wait until the WBC mandated a second Vitali fight before finally making his decision.


[url]http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1697&dat=20040206&id=jykqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=REgEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6892,708597[/url]

 

Vitali even said afterwards that Lewis was heavy and not in good shape so he wanted push a faster pace because Lewis couldn't fight hard.

 

He waited just as long following the Tyson fight to decide whether he was fighting again. Or at least announce it. So it's no mystery.

Lewis could have carried on fighting until he lost his championship. He did the rare thing, and retired on top. A lot of people resent him for this, they wanted to see him beat I guess.

 

A man who is born on the 2nd of September 1965, and fights on the 21st of June 2003 is a fvcking lot closer to 38, than 37.


Don't be so pedantically stupid.

 

And nor is he 39.. Don't be so illiterate.