Would Vitali have beaten Lennox?

22 months is closer to two years than 18 and I was responding to this:

The original argument were who there most recent fights were. And we moved the goal post to years and not number of fights.

Yes when you started talking about who Wlad and Lewis faced between 34-37.

You can include Haye, Chambers and whoever you want. Lewis' list is much better.

37 years 9 months and a few weeks. Thank God for that extra 10 or so weeks of youth!!!!!!!

 

Notice how Klittards don't realize that everyone ages differently. Tyson peaked at 21. Benitez was shot when he turned 25. On the other hand, fighters like Marquez, Hopkins, and Jersey Joe Walcott got better with age.

 

I think Lewis was correct in retiring because IMO he had a good chance to lose and he had a good hunch, the cut was a good break for him in fight 1 but Vitali took his best shots and had grown in confidence since the 1st fight and his explosive win over Kirk Johnson

 

This seems pretty accurate.

 

-Really, you just wanted to leave Thompson out because you wanted to emphasize the bad challengers. Same reason you didn't name Povetkin despite that fight being just late last year.

-I don't know, it seems like you wanted to list everyone Lewis defended the title against regardless of any date or age span and just focus on a cluster of crap challengers Wlad took the past couple of years while leaving out the good ones.

-Well, he fought Holyfield and Vitali and not as many bums, but I think the difference between Peter, Pulev, Thompson, Grant, Haye, Tua, Rahman, Chambers isn't worth arguing. Frankly, I think Povetkin has a better resume on paper than Vitali. Byrd, Chambers, Chageav, and Huck. But at any rate, I'm not going to debate that, my issue was the Wach, Pianta, Leapai comment was a dishonest representation. At least name the good ones too.

-Bummy's whole point is that Lewis never fought at 38 and Wlad is still going. You responded by listing Wlad's worst challengers. What is the implication? Lewis' longevity was unfairly cut short at the prospect of facing Vitali? Sure, I'll agree with that. But not with the implication that Wlad is only going strong because he's fighting bums when he is still facing top guys inbetween.

 

Oh shut up and go back to general. Everybody here is aware of that.

 

not quite. I've acknowledged his fights with Povetkin and Thompson in posts that you've already responded to, and pointed out that even those two weren't as good as some of Lewis' final opponents.

NO.. I took the last several of Lewis' opponents and sized them up to the last several Wlad has faced to this point. If you want, we can compare their entire careers side by side going back to their prospect days, but I seriously doubt that'll strengthen your position.

Its a no brainer for me who's fought the better opposition. If you want then start a poll. Alexander Povetkin isn't Vitali Klitscko and I seriously hope that you're not going to start a side debate bolstering that he's better. Wach, Pianeta and Leapai are among some of his more recent opponents ( along with Povetkin ) and listening to the gripes around here for the past 18 months it doesn't seem there are many who view them as serious challengers.

Rather than asking what i was implying, why don't you ask Bummy the same question? By pointing out that Wlad is still around at 38 and Lewis wasn't at that age, could he have been insinuating that Wlad was doing something that Lewis was incapable of? Because if that is indeed the case, then perhaps it was valid for me to point out why. There are lots of fighters lingering around these days who are 38+.. Opposition is what's keeping them around and Wlad is no exception. Povetkin was the number one guy and a belt holder. Fair enough.. But he's also a 35 year old guy who's best win is probably Eddie Chambers. Now how would that have looked when comparing him to Evander Holyfield in 1990 who was the #1 guy then?

I never said that this was the ONLY reason he's still around or that EVERYONE he's fighting is crap. But when someone has the gull to say " hey look, Lenny called it quits at 37 and Waldo is still around at 38," I'm compelled to pointing out the obvious.

 

I think that much of what Lewis said was in the heat of the moment after a hard fought win, in which he was being criticised. So why anyone would hold him to this comments is a mystery to me. I'm sure there are probably Klitschko fans out there that are complaining why did didn't fight both brothers on the same night.

 

I think his respect for his mom's wishes went beyond money. But from what I understand about the rematch no occurring it was at least partly to honor her wishes that he retire. As a parent who spends countless hours and money on a kid, I can certainly relate to this, especially as it pertains to a dangerous sport such as boxing.

As to how a rematch would have unfolded, it's hard to say, my gut feeling is that Vitali had his chances both before and after the cut and never got the job done, so I think a Lewis who has a bit better timing with respect to throwing and landing his punches would likely have won. But it's certainly not out of the question that he didn't want to risk losing the last fight of his career.

 

Vitali Klitschko was just way better than Lennox Lewis that night. Vitali was prime and Lennox was about ten years past his prime. The fight might have been headed for a lopsided decision or Klitschko might have knocked Lewis out. It's an old story, the young past prime lions falling prey to the young lions. We see it several times a decade. Passing of the torch and what not. I don't know how the fight shakes out with both men in their primes, but I imagine it would be close.

 

I think Lewis was coming on.

Bottm line Lewis on his worst winning night still won.

 

-The final 6? Wlad's last 6 opponents span only 15 months. Lewis final 6 span 35 months. Wlad in his later years is fighting more frequently but to stay busy, he's had to sacrifice opponent quality.

-I said I'm not going to debate that. But that Eddie Chambers is a better single win than anybody Vitali has bar Corrie Sanders perhaps.Chambers did manage to match what is regarded as Vitali's best comeback win with a route over an overweight Peter in the same timeframe. And we've seen Chambers outbox Vitali's most decorated scalp, Adamek, with one hand. Not sure what 1990 Evander Holyfield has to do with anything.

-"Remember Vlad is 38 right now but also has 20+ more fight than Lennox"

Bummy, brings up a good point. Wlad is one of the busiest heavyweights in modern times and is still going strong at 38. Bringing up three of his worst opponents in the past few years is hardly the obvious explantation.

 

This Is like asking would spinks have beaten tyson if he didn't get KOd.

Lennox wins any situation end of discussion.

 

That's about the strength of it.

 

Its the perfect explanation.. And fighting on average two times per year doesn't exactly stand out as being exceptionally active, even if he is keeping busier than Lewis was at the end of his career. Lennox Lewis fought the better opposition early, middle and late in his tenure as a fighter, which can partly attribute to his choosing to retire. Even he hadn't made that choice he still proved he had gas left in the tank by beating Vitali at age 37 and after taking a year off... Wlad's longevity is partially due to his opposition.. If he were 38 years old in the heavyweight division of the 90's we wouldn't even be having this discussion.