Would you pick anyone below 180 lbs over Fitzsimmons?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by 70sFan865, Jun 3, 2019.



  1. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti The Ad Wolgast of Googling Stuff Full Member

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    Slick boxers had the most success against him, but he basically destroyed everyone other than Jeffries in his prime.

    Below 180 I think they'd need both an excellent defence and an iron jaw
     
  2. Grapefruit

    Grapefruit Active Member Full Member

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    Off the top of my head
    Leonard
    Hagler
    Hearns
    Duran
    McClellan
    Roy Jones
    James toney
    Michael spinks
    Kovalev
    Ward
    Canelo
    Callum Smith
    Nigel benn
    Chris eubank sr
    Steve Collins
    Iran Barkley
    Terry Norris
    Billy conn
    Sugar ray Robinson
     
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  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Youngest Ezzard Charles Fan Ever Full Member

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    How?
     
  4. Grapefruit

    Grapefruit Active Member Full Member

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    Fitz from film doesn't seen like he would be too hard for any of them to hit, plus he skips leg day.
     
  5. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Youngest Ezzard Charles Fan Ever Full Member

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    He's one of the greatest body punchers ever. Canelo and Kovalev wouldn't be able to handle that and I doubt Ward can take his power either considering Kovalev was hurting him
     
  6. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Active Member Full Member

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    He doesn't look easy to hit to be honest. His guard is higher than Corbett's, Tunney's or Dempsey's and changed it throughout the fight. He also fought with smaller gloves so he relied more on avoiding punches than covering up.
     
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  7. Golden_Feather99

    Golden_Feather99 Member Full Member

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    Can you provide some footage of Bob's body punching (other than Fitz-Corbett)? You think Kovalev is just going to stand still and let Bob hit him in the tummy. I'd like to see how Bob sets up his body punches. How does Bob throw body punches. Does he bend at his knees or at his waist. Can he be countered when goes to the body. Does he move his head off the centreline when he goes to the body. Does he use both his hands. Does he throw hooks to the body in close range or does he throw jabs and straight rights from the outside. How hard would it be to block those punches. How good is he at feinting. Can he counter to the body or can he only lead. What's his technique like. Does he telegraph his punches. The only way to know how good a body puncher Fitz was is if I watched him go to the body. Tell me what fight to watch.

    There is nothing Bob does that Kovalev can't deal with. How will Bob deal with Kovalev's jab? In his last fight, Kovalev threw 391 jabs. And Alvarez is no slouch, he's a good fighter. That's 33 jabs a round. How often did Corbett jab against Bob? Kovalev had to worry about Alvarez's overhand counter too. Do you think Bob's defence is good enough to avoid Kovalev's punches? I think Kovalev would outbox Bob and knock him out.

    Destroying larger fighters is very impressive but did anyone pressure him like Duran? That's what I asked. Just because you're bigger, it doesn't mean you are a better pressure fighter. Duran was a great pressure fighter. He knew how to cut the ring off and he had good head movement. I don't see how Bob can KO Duran if Duran is pressuring him. Ray Leonard was having trouble countering Duran when Duran was pressuring him. What does Duran have to worry about moving forward? Bob doesn't have a solid jab and he doesn't have great footwork. Duran has dealt with fighters like Leonard, Hagler, Buchanan, Palomino, and Benitez. You honestly think Bob is going to surprise Duran? I believe Duran was one of the most well-rounded boxers ever. Duran was landing lead right hands on Leonard's face. You gotta be one crafty mf to do that. I don't feel that way when I watch Fitz vs Corbett. You're gonna have to break it down for me because I don't see how Bob could beat Duran.
     
  8. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti The Ad Wolgast of Googling Stuff Full Member

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    The only other footage of Fitz online is from the 12th round of the Lang fight, when he was 46 against a 30Ib heavier opponent in severe heat, most of which he is him completely out on his feet. I think a bit more exists of that fight but not much. Footage wise the Corbett fight is really it.

    Corbett was all about movement, much faster on his feet than Kovalev, so I don't see that as much of an issue.

    One of the best comparisons is probably Dan Creedon who was knocked out for 5 minutes in the second round, and was a significantly bigger fighter than Duran.

    Here's a report I've posted a few times of Creedon against Jem Smith, I need to get his fight with Frank Craig typed up at some point.
    Edinburgh Evening News - Tuesday 28 January 1896
    GLOVE FIGHT FOR £400
    An important glove fight was decided at the National Sporting Club, London, last night. The competitors were Jem Smith, of London, and Dean Creedon, of Australia, who had signed articles to box the best of twenty rounds at catch weights for a purse of £400, of which the winner took £300 and the loser £100. Smith trained at Brighton, and was reported as weighing 13st. The Australian came to England from America in the early part of September. Born in New Zealand on June 12th, 1863, Creedon is a remarkably well-built man, standing the same height as Smith, but sealing in condition about 11st 4Ib. Creedon's record of something like seventy battles includes but one defeat from Fitzsimmons. Creedon visited England for the purpose of fighting Frank Craig, the black, and when the two met at the National Sporting Club on the 14th of last October, Creedon gained the award on points at the end of the twentieth round. For his match with Smith he trained at Wheathampstead. There was a very large attendance. At first Creedon's friends took even money about his chance, but presently they asked for and got 5 to 4 to their money. There were one or two minor events set for decision previous to the international battle, and it was half-past ten before the chief actors made their appearance on the scene. Smith looked too stout to do himself justice, but Creedon was in the pink of condition.

    A BRIEF BUT DECISIVE BATTLE.
    This fight was brief but decisive. Although as tall as Smith, Creedon crouched so very low that he appeared much the shorter of the two. As is the case with most Australian boxers, Creedon is veryshifty on his feet, and dancing all round the ring, he takes a lot of catching. At the call of time, Creedon took the initiative, and getting in one or two swinging lefts on the mouth, he soon caused his rival to lose his temper. Smith was somewhat nonplussed at the treatment he was receiving. He lashed out furiosly, and made several attempts to reach the body with the left glove. Each time he did so, however, Creedon stepped back and avoided punishment. These continuel efforts made Smith puff and blow freely: and it was quite evident, even at this stage, that he was short of wind. About half-way through the round, Smith began to look weary; and Creedon, seeing this, went at him, and drove him across the ring with some stinging left handed blows on the face and mouth. The round ended greatly in the Australian's favour. Smith realised that his sole chance of winning was to beat Creedon quickly; and with this intention he began to force the work at a very warm pace when they faced each other for the second time, although he was giving so much weight away. However, Creedon stood up and fought his opponent like a game fellow, and, to the surprise of most of the onlookers, he more than held his own in the heavy work which took place. Although he made little use of his right hand. Smith got in some heavy punches on the body, but Creedon would not give way, and let out at the other man freely with the left. Smith, finding that he could make no impression on his rival, lost his head completely, and he rushed wildly at the Australian. As he did so Creedon ducked; and then at the same moment shooting out his left, he caught Smith a tremendous punch on the mouth, which knocked him right off his feet. Before anybody could quite realise what had happened, Smith was lying on his back in a helpless position. He remained down until after the ten seconds had been countedd off; and thus, after four minutes and twenty seconds' actual fighting, Creedon was proclaimed the winner. Mr B. J. Angle was referee.
    Subsequently the ex middleweight champion of England, Ted Pritchard, issued a challenge to box Creedon and as the latter has accepted it a match will probably be arranged between them.
     
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  9. Golden_Feather99

    Golden_Feather99 Member Full Member

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    I don't think he had better footwork than Kovalev. I've seen Fitzsimmons-Corbett. Maybe he had great footwork/movement for his time but I don't see anything special. Most of the time they stand in front of each other. Every now and then Corbett would show some lateral movement. Other than that, they move in straight lines. They either move forward or backward.

    I don't think it's fair to compare fighters from different eras. How does Corbett's footwork compare to someone like Ali, Holmes, Tyson, Walcott, Holyfield, Tunney? Didn't Greg Page move better than Corbett? James Tillis and Tommy Morrison? I have seen too many heavyweights who had better movement than Corbett.

    I don't think it's possible to compare the foot speed of Kovalev and Corbett. Cameras back then were so different (slower fps). And being faster on your feet doesn't mean you have better footwork. Kovalev's footwork is much better.

    Against Corbett, Bob didn't go to the body enough for me to call him a great body puncher. Corbett did just as well going to the body. Look at how Ward went to Kovalev's body. He just jabbed to the body. He got as low as he could because he knew he could get hit with the right hand counter. That's what I wanna see from Bob. Not winging hooks to the body. Kovalev has an excellent jab that he works behind. How is Bob going to deal with that jab? He struggled a lot against Corbett's jab. I think Kovalev will land his jab at will. Kovalev has good footwork and he's great at setting up his right hand. He has tight defence unlike Bob and he doesn't telegraph his punches. Great technique and great fundamentals. I saw Kovalev outbox Ward and I saw Bob get outboxed by Corbett. And he got dropped by Corbett who isn't a puncher. Bob didn't have great footwork, Kovalev would easily cut him off and get him out of there. I would pick Lottie Mwale to beat Bob. No disrespect to Bob.

    "significantly bigger fighter than Duran." Are you messing with me? I can't find any footage of this guy. Thanks for the report but I highly doubt Creedon was anywhere near as good as Duran. Very few fighters were better than Duran. From what I've seen of Bob, I can't even pick him to beat Iran Barkley. I'm what they call a "modernist". I believe fighters got better with time. Especially since the 1890s.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
  10. Gudetama

    Gudetama Active Member Full Member

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    At 160, only Greb.
    At 168, only Greb.
    At 175, only Charles and Langford.
    I'm a Fitz fan.
     
  11. thistle1

    thistle1 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    L-HWs cum HW - Normal Size ones, not like todays 240lb fighters cutting down with 4 months to do so.

    So yes NORMAL Size men, either side of 180lbs, of course, Dozens over the hundred years that followed could beat him.
     
  12. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Active Member Full Member

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    My post with a clip of Bob punching examples is denied here, can you tell me why?
     
  13. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti The Ad Wolgast of Googling Stuff Full Member

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    I think a mod will just need to approve it because you're new.
     
  14. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Active Member Full Member

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    Yeah but they just disappear after about an hour. Maybe a mod don't approve my post, but then I don't understand why.
     
  15. Gudetama

    Gudetama Active Member Full Member

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    I would suggest that it may just be down the fact that Fitz was such a badass, his best clips are viewed as criminal activity. Thus un-viewable.
     
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