Would you pick anyone to stop Ali

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BlackCloud, May 25, 2021.

  1. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    16,619
    1,853
    Oct 25, 2006
    As to the thread, it's a head scratcher.

    I think if the first Cooper fight is relevant (which it is, IMO) it's to show that miracles can happen.
    Had they never fought, not one poster would bet one cent on Cooper flooring Ali. And that's very reasonable to assume, had they not fought. But he did deck Ali, so once again, this is boxing and the sport makes a fool out of conventional wisdom sometimes.
    But barring some freak, out-of-the-blue punch which does Ali in, it's quite hard to envision anyone doing it, at least for me.

    It would suggest 2 scenarios:
    1) Someone has enough one-punch power to ice Ali instantly.
    2) Someone has the skill to beat Ali down, wear him out, and then get him out of there. Essentially displaying overall technical mastery of Ali.

    Either scenario doesn't really seem plausible. Watching Ali as an old, shot fighter taking flush bombs from Shavers has basically convinced me Ali isn't going to sleep after one punch. Knock him down? That's possible.
    Keep him down? Very unlikely that. (Barring the freak shot mentioned earlier)

    Second scenario also doesn't seem likely. I can imagine Ali being outpointed, but beaten down to the point of being defenceless? Man, hard to envision.

    I suppose there is a third scenario, whereby he gets heavily dropped by a single punch, groggily gets up, and is finished off by a lethal combination. STILL hard to envision, but it's plausible.

    So who has the right blend of punching power, technical ability, handspeed to catch him with something he doesn't see, and the finishing skill to finish him off?
    That's something I'll leave for you guys to debate.
     
  2. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

    22,292
    4,667
    Jul 15, 2008
    I don't see it .. he was exceptionally strong, had an amazing chin, recooperative powers, great size, in his prime which to me may have been the Quarry 2 fight, too much of everything ...
     
  3. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,241
    10,870
    Jul 16, 2019
    My God I am so tired I am so fed up with the excuses of the Mike Tyson vs Buster Douglas fight, acceptance is a good thing, it builds character, it thwarts off denial. So he got rid of Kevin Rooney, he took up with Robyn Given and her neurotic mother, poor choices but they were his. Just let the guy lose in peace, you will find another hero. As for Ali getting dropped by Henry Cooper in 1963, he got decked, but bottom line, he got up to stop Cooper, he did not stay down feebly looking for his mouthpiece. Let Mike Tyson fight sharks and enjoy his journey,
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2021
    manilavanilla and swagdelfadeel like this.
  4. BUDW

    BUDW Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,744
    697
    Nov 23, 2007
    its near unanimous Shavers or Foreman were the hardest punchers by fellow boxers, i will take their opinion
     
  5. Jester

    Jester Active Member Full Member

    855
    396
    Jul 27, 2014
    I can guarantee you that Ali was hit on the jaw more than twice throughout his career by harder punchers than Cooper and Frazier. It's readily available on footage. And I don't think Cooper's punching technique was better than the likes of Liston or Foreman either. Ali took his left hook just fine in their rematch.


    Here's Foreman's actual quote. "I thought he was just one more knockout victim until, about the seventh round, I hit him hard to the jaw and he held me and whispered in my ear: 'That all you got, George?' I realized that this ain't what I thought it was."
    Foreman makes it clear that what psyched him out was Ali brushing off a hard punch of his which landed on the jaw and then still being able to taunt him afterwards.


    You can't just say "people close to him" and then act like it proves anything. Who said it? What information did they have access to which amounted to anything more than speculation? If you've read up on Liston's life, it shouldn't be hard to produce a couple names and quotes. And unless they actually saw a birth certificate or one of the census reports or something like that, the only thing which could be conclusive is something Liston told them himself. Otherwise, their view is just an opinion, and no more official than that of anyone posting on this forum trying to guess when Liston was born, and I don't see any reason to take their word over that of his mother or other family members, even with the documented inconsistencies surrounding those testimonies. And regarding Liston's physical appearance, years of drug and alcohol use coupled with everything else he experience in life could have caused him to look older than he actually was. Sure, that doesn't prove he wasn't older than he claimed, but that's just the crux of it. Guessing that he was older than claimed based on his appearance and attempting to explain why he might have looked older than he was are both just that, guesses, nothing more. And do you have a source for that autopsy report?
     
    JohnThomas1 and BlackCloud like this.
  6. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Full Member

    13,897
    10,942
    Jun 9, 2007
    Well that's fine for you I just strongly disagree
     
    White Bomber likes this.
  7. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Bye for now! Full Member

    4,228
    4,354
    Oct 12, 2020
    I know, I know Grey who is second though? but onto the important stuff old sage would Suga Valuev take Georges lunch?
     
  8. White Bomber

    White Bomber Active Member Full Member

    1,483
    859
    Mar 31, 2021
    Those "fellow boxers" as you call them did not also get hit by Lewis, Wlad etc to be able to compare
     
    moneytheman12 likes this.
  9. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

    10,841
    7,788
    Mar 19, 2012
    People focus too much on who hit "harder". Its the timing of a punch, snap, to create an explosion at the target. On the point of the chin without the opponent seeing it. A guy could take a harder punch without going down because he braced himself that fraction of a second.
     
    Bokaj and swagdelfadeel like this.
  10. moneytheman12

    moneytheman12 Active Member banned Full Member

    731
    221
    Feb 4, 2021
    yea so dumb to say if he couldnt nobody else could
    earn always used to let people get away once they was hurt dont know why
     
    White Bomber likes this.
  11. moneytheman12

    moneytheman12 Active Member banned Full Member

    731
    221
    Feb 4, 2021
    anybody who says the old quote of earn hit the hardest is dumb it was boxers after him who hit harder and with better aim
     
    White Bomber likes this.
  12. moneytheman12

    moneytheman12 Active Member banned Full Member

    731
    221
    Feb 4, 2021
    im tired of that dumb quote I will take his opinion that's real dumb cause those boxers who said that didnt fight all the hardest hitters of all history so why take anybody's word

    vid shows harder hitters and no man said that it's easy to see on vid which means vid proof goes over words

    it shows a person is like a programmed robot saying quotes like ill take his word or other ones like George always beats joe even thought joe fought way better when he was in shape the match wouldnt be the same so no reason to say joe would be dominated the same
     
    White Bomber likes this.
  13. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Bergeron Avatar Club Full Member

    9,690
    2,181
    Jun 30, 2005
    Dempsey without the neutral corner rule, maybe? He has the power, speed, and left hook to knock Ali down with a lucky shot. Once that happens, Dempsey can stand over Ali and whack him with those tiny 1919 gloves every time Ali's knee leaves the canvas.

    It's neither sporting nor a terribly likely scenario, but it would technically fulfill your conditions.