Would you rate juanma higher than tito if..........

trinidad was not caught doing wha margarito did tito is NOT a cheat cut it out

 

i think you refer this:

Cherifi Better Watch Tito's Hand Wraps.
Exclusive by Ron Heard

On September 29, 2001 before the fight between Bernard Hopkins and Felix Trinidad, team Hopkins sent a representative from their team to over-see Tito's hands being wrapped. When their representative arrived he was shocked to see that Tito's left hand was already wrapped, signed off and the boxing glove was on. In an exclusive interview Bernard Hopkins (said), "I sent my team in there to watch Trinidad wrap his hands and when they got there
Trinidad's left hand was already wrapped and he had his boxing glove on. So my trainer, Bouie Fisher who has been doing this stuff for a long time went over there to straighten it up. The thing is Trinidad has been getting away with doing this for a long time. I know for a fact that he has done it at least one other fight. They are used to being able to do whatever they want and get away with it. That is how it is in boxing."
First of all, you have to wonder who this commissioner was that let Don Felix wrap Tito's hand without anyone from the Hopkins camp being there. Hopkins said, "not only did he let him wrap the hands without us being there, but he was in there joking and laughing and talking Spanish with the Trinidads like they were best friends. When Bouie told them that he would have to take it off and rewrap it in front of someone fron their camp, he said "NO," its
already wrapped and it's too close to time for the fight to start. Bouie had to go to the head commissioner before they were made to rewrap his hands."
Luckily for Hopkins, Bouie Fisher is old school and he was not going to let this fight go on with Tito having wrapped his left hand and nobody from his camp watching it. "Bouie kept telling them, either we do this by the book or we don't do it all," said Hopkins.

It didn't make since to Fisher why the Trinidad's were so insistent on not rewrapping the hand because obviously they knew the rules. They have been in enough of these big fights to know that a representative from the other camp is allowed to be in the room while they are wrapping Tito's hand. Even if the New York Commission's Representative didn't know any better, the Trinidads definitely did. The Trinidads went so far as to actually say, "If we have to rewrap Tito's hand then there will be no fight."
Why was this left hand wrapping so important to the Trinidads?
Finally, after the head commissioner became involved the Trinidads were told to either rewrap the left hand or the fight was off. After much argument, they finally agreed to rewrap the hand with a member from the Hopkins team present.
Tito was made to remove his glove and the prior wrapping in front of Hopkins representative Naazim Richardson who noticed that the wrap looked very thick and when he felt it he says it was as hard as a rock. All the sudden it became very clear why they had tried to get away with wrapping the left hand without anyone from the Hopkins camp watching and also why they didn't want to remove it and rewrap the hand.
Don Felix began to rewrap the hand again, but Richardson noticed that Don Felix was putting layers of tape and then gauze, tape and then gauze, tape and then gauze which is not in accordance with NYSAC rules. The rules stipulate tape cannot be applied directly over the knuckles, and that repeating the process several times (is not permitted).
In an interview with Bernard Fernandez of Philly.com, Hopkins said, "If you put on tape, then gauze, then tape, then gauze, it's like a [plaster] cast. It's like being hit with a baseball bat. I'm giving out some secrets here, but you can dip your hands in ice water and that tape will, like, marinate and become harder. But it's only cheating if you get caught. Personally, I think Vargas' and Reid's people dropped the ball. Naazim did a brilliant job in spotting what [Felix Trinidad Sr.] was doing with the wraps." Don Felix was also putting tape on the skin and over the knuckles, both of which are not in accordance with NYSAC rules. New York's head commissioner put his foot down and made Don Felix wrap in strict accordance to the rules.
Don Felix has insisted in several interviews that, "I have always wrapped Tito's hands this way and nobody else has ever said anything."
Thats like saying, I beat my wife all the time and I've never got in trouble for it before. Now, all the sudden you guys want to make a big deal out this. That's just not right, I'm a respectable man.
In a recent interview of Don Felix by Gerardo M. Avila-Planas and David Mesqueue., Don Felix was asked, "Do you think that the Hopkins camp did it (made them rewrap Tito's hand) to get to you psychologically?" and he answered, "Well, it got to us a little because, since I couldnt place the tape that I usually place on Titos hand... I had to add some more gauze to make a type of pillow... This tends to take away some of the power in the punch."
There are a couple really important things in this statement by Don Felix.
First, he admits that the New York Commission wouldn't allow him to wrap the hands like he ALWAYS DOES. There can only be one reason for him not being allowed to wrap the hands that way - it was illegal. Therefore, if that is how he ALWAYS wrapped Tito's hands in the past, the assumption that he always wrapped illegally is not far-fetched. But this time he was forced to wrap the hands in strict accordance to NYSAC rules.

Second, he admits that not being able to use the layers and to put the tape on the skin and over the knuckles, "TENDS TO TAKE AWAY SOME OF THE POWER IN THE PUNCH." So he admits that with the illegal wrapping Tito is able to hit harder.
Finally, he also admits, that not only does the illegal wrap allow Tito to hit harder, but it PREVENTS TITO'S HANDS FROM OPENING ON IMPACT" which actually provides more protection for his hand. So while most fighters have to worry about hitting a fighter on the top of the head in fear of hurting their hands, Tito's hands have extra power and extra protection from illegal hand wraps.
You may think, "Oh Well," it's over. He wrapped the hands illegally, he got caught and was made to rewrap legally - no harm - no foul.
Not exactly.
First of all, Don Felix insists that he is going to continue to wrap Tito's hands the way he has always wrapped them - which is of course, illegally. In the same interview quoted above, Don Felix is asked straight out, "Will you be wrapping Titos hands differently for this upcoming fight with Cherifi?" and to my absolute amazement his answer was, "No, well be doing it the same way weve always done it because I believe that we wouldnt have the same problems we had for the last fight. That controversy was really done to fill our heads with too many things at the same time. It was like a type of terrorism in a time when terrorism was in the United States. It was boxing terrorism."
I don't see how you can blame Hopkins for not allowing them to wrap Tito's left hand without anyone from his camp being there. Hown one day the cops come and arrest you just after one of your sparring sessions on her face, you can't blame the cops for terrorizing you just because you got away with it all the other times.
If the wraps were illegal, then they will be and always have been illegal. That is as long as they are in the United States. Which brings up a very interesting twist.
Cherifi better watch very carefully how Tito wraps that left hand, but even if he does, are the same rules applicable in Puerto Rico? Even if the rules are the same will the commission there enforce them?

Regardless, the fact remains; the first reason to pay close attention to this issue is for the protection of Tito's future opponents, such as Cherifi. However, there is another reason. What about Tito's past opponents?
Tito Trinidad has moved up the boxing ranks by giving some of the best fighters in boxing a severe beating and some of them may never be the same after suffering the effects of that beating. Take for example, David Reid. In March of 2000 Reid, who was 14-0 and the WBA jr. middleweight champion of the world, stepped into the ring against Tito Trinidad. Reid had a good right hand and caught Tito with it in the 3rd round and sent him to the canvas. More importantly he was able to avoid Tito's left hook, but only until the 7th round. Tito knocked read down in the 7th and then 3 times in the 11th. Since that fight it has been apparent that Reid will never be the same fighter. He was literally ruined by one fight.
His next fight against Kirino Garcia (who had a record of 28-20-1) you could see the lasting effects of the Trinidad beating - this was supposed to be a confidence building fight for Reid. But instead, Reid was gun shy and tired badly down the stretch allowing Garcia to almost steal the fight; in fact, everyone in the audience felt Kirino Garcia won the fight even though the judges gave the decision to Reid. However, Reid knew he was not the same.

His next fight would be against Urbano Gurrola (who was 18-7) and it was more of the same. Gurrola withstood the right hands through the first 5 rounds and then Reid tired badly. It was as if Reid was a totally different fighter. You could see the panic in his face by the 8th round as Gurrola started putting pressure on him. Again, Reid was given a decision that many felt he didn't deserve. The next fight against Maurice Brantley (23-3) was almost identical to the two prior fights. But if those three fights weren't enough proof, his next fight against Sam Hill (who was 13-2-1 and looked to be badly out of shape) confirmed everyone's suspicions. Reid would never be the same fighter - he was TKO'ed in the 9th round by Sam Hill on November 11, 2001 and his career likely over for good. In just over a years time it became crystal clear that the beating Tito Trinidad gave David Reid would last a lifetime.

 

You are grossly misinformed.

 

"I sent my team in there to watch Trinidad wrap his hands and when they got there
Trinidad's left hand was already wrapped and he had his boxing glove on. So my trainer, Bouie Fisher who has been doing this stuff for a long time, went over there to straighten it up. The thing is, Trinidad has been getting away with doing this for a long time. I know for a fact that he has done it in at least one other fight. They are used to being able to do whatever they want and get away with it. That is how it is in boxing."
-Hopkins

"not only did he let him wrap the hands without us being there, but he was in there joking and laughing and talking Spanish with the Trinidads like they were best friends. When Bouie told them that he would have to take it off and rewrap it in front of someone from their camp, he said "NO," its
already wrapped and it's too close to time for the fight to start.
Bouie had to go to the head commissioner before they were made to rewrap his hands."
-Hopkins

"Bouie kept telling them, either we do this by the book or we don't do it all,"-Hopkins.

"If we have to rewrap Tito's hand then there will be no fight." –Team Trinidad


"If you put on tape, then gauze, then tape, then gauze, it's like a [plaster] cast. It's like being hit with a baseball bat. I'm giving out some secrets here, but you can dip your hands in ice water and that tape will, like, marinate and become harder. But it's only cheating if you get caught. Personally, I think Vargas' and Reid's people dropped the ball. Naazim did a brilliant job in spotting what [Felix Trinidad Sr.] was doing with the wraps." -Hopkins

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“That’s like saying, I beat my wife all the time and I've never got in trouble for it before. Now, all the sudden you guys want to make a big deal out this. That's just not right, I'm a respectable man.”-Hopkins

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In the same interview quoted above, Don Felix is asked straight out, "Will you be wrapping Tito’s hands differently for this upcoming fight with Cherifi?" and to my absolute amazement his answer was, "No, we’ll be doing it the same way we have always done it because I believe that we wouldn’t have the same problems we had for the last fight. That controversy was really done to fill our heads with too many things at the same time. It was like a type of terrorism in a time when terrorism was in the United States. It was boxing terrorism."



Vargas said, "I had never been hit with a punch like that. I can remember thinking, who is this guy Mike Tyson." After going back and watching the tape of the Vargas vs Trinidad fight, I noticed that even Jim Lampley was saying, "look at how Vargas is responding even to Tito's jab." It was absolutely amazing. Tito's jab was almost knocking Vargas down and this is a fighter who had fought top quality opposition and had never been knocked down before.

Even Hopkins told me in our interview, "once Tito hit me with his left hook and seen that he couldn't hurt me, the fight was over."



Ike:
" I talked to William Joppy before his last fight and he brought up an issue that Trinidad's people wrapped Tito's hand illegally and that is why he lost. He said that your people caught Trinidad illegally wrapping his hands. Can you tell us what happened?"

Bouie Fischer:
" I tell you, Ike. They have been getting away with that for a long time. I sent my people to Trinidad's locker room to make sure everything was right. When they got there they came back to me and told me that Trinidad's left hand was wrapped before they got there. So, I had to go over to his dressing room myself, this is my business and I have been doing it for over 50 years. When I got there I told them to unwrap the hand and do it over because we need to see the hand being wrapped. They refused to unwrap the hands so I told them I guess the fight will not happen then, we can reschedule to another date. The officials came in and said we don't have time to do this over. I told them, well we must do this right or no fight. They know the rules, no tape on the skin or tape on the ankle. His left hand was heavy just like your camera. Guess what, the officials then said, " you can go and wrap Bernard hands anyway you want." Trinidad's father and his people didn't want to make the change because they knew they cheated and they tried to cover it up by asking me to wrap Bernard's hands anyway we wish. I wasn't going for that, we have to do this right, they raised hell like you couldn't believe. I said you can do it your way, but there will be no fight if you don't do it right. They said we are going to leave it as it is, so I told them we can reschedule the fight untill next week. They didn't want to do that. This is why we had a delay coming out. When they saw Bernard they tried to ask us to take off just a little tape, but they had a half roll of tape on Trinidad's left hand. This is why people say he has a good left hook. David Reid paid a big price, Trinidad took away the fighter in him. David Reid’s people were trying to schedule a fight with Bernard and it could have happened if Reid would have won his last fight.
I'm glad it never happened. "

Joppy said Trinidad was not deserving of Boxing Hall of Fame induction, claiming that Tito "brought a bat to a fist fight".
Why do you think Trinidad agreed to this fight? It's obvious to anyone and everyone that knows anything about boxing and know anything about anyone of these guy's career. Trinidad will get completely embarrassed in this fight, and possibly hurt badly! Trinadad is coming off a long lay-off, and before the lay-off he looked like he was at the end of his "illegal hand wrapping techniques" That's something that Roy needs to be aware of, as I'm sure he is. Here's a little something I read about that...."Boxing trainers and opponents of Trinidad later claimed that the fashion of hand wrapping in Trinidad's hands gave the boxer the equivalent of brass knuckles. Claiming that if wrongly folded the wrappings, especially when dipped into water and allowed to dry, became rock hard. These boxers and Hopkins' trainer also stated that this was the real reason Tito's famous left hook was so effective."


When we last saw Joppy, a former two-time WBA middleweight titlist, he was getting blasted out in five explosive rounds by Trinidad in May. Joppy would remark afterwards that he had never been hit quite like that. Now, it has a new meaning to it.

"HELL YEAH!" exclaimed Joppy. "Absolutely, its like, you and me fighting on the street and I put my brass knuckles on."

Joppy, who was visibly dazed after his fight against Trinidad, says that Trinidad's punches had an unnatural feeling to them.

"I've been hit with good shots," Joppy told xxxxxxxxx.com. "But I was like, 'Damn! He ain't that strong!' I've been up against guys where they say, 'Man, this guy can hit, watch him,' And I've been hit by them and they could hit, but I could weather the storm. And I know he beefed up even more since he moved to middleweight, his father probably did something. His father loves him so much, that's his baby, so he has to give his son that extra advantage. They've been doing it his whole career."

According to Joppy, all of Trinidad's past accomplishments are now tainted.

"He's a cheat," Joppy said. "Before I heard about that, I was like,' I take my hat off to him. He's a great champion, he should go to the Hall of Fame'. But I can't give him that anymore, his whole record, he's 40-1 — it's nothing now. You can't do that anymore, he's cheating like a Panama Lewis."

Fernando Vargas, current WBA 154-pound titlist, had faced Trinidad prior to 'Tito's' destruction of Joppy. In the aftermath of taking five knockdowns over 12 rounds at the hands of Trinidad, Vargas, according to many observers has not been the same fighter he was before facing the Puerto Rican superstar.

 

"When I got hit," recalled Vargas. "I was like, 'did Mike Tyson just hit me or something?' I mean, I knew he was strong and everything but that was ridiculous. I couldn't believe what he was hitting me with."

Vargas admits that his representatives 'dropped the ball' in not catching the infraction of Trinidad's wrapping like the Hopkins camp.

"Next time, I'll definitely have someone in there who knows what they're doing in looking for that stuff," he said.

Vargas declined to name who was in Trinidad's dressing room before their fight last December.

But Vargas said that he was warned of such shenanigans in Trinidad's homeland on the press tour for 'Forces of Destruction.'

"Somebody came up to me at the press conference in Puerto Rico," stated Vargas. "He was Puerto Rican and I don't know who he is, but I've seen him around many fights, he's affiliated with boxing. I don't know if he's a trainer, manager, whatever he might be. He said, 'Look, I'm Puerto Rican, but I don't like Trinidad's people. I'm gonna tell you guys, you better watch out for the way he wraps.' And I'm over here thinking, 'I mean, what can you do with your wraps?' Y'know what I'm saying? I didn't really pay it no mind and obviously we sent somebody in there who didn't know too much about wraps."


"Actually, Hasim Rahman, he came back to my dressing room and said, 'Go check the wraps, make sure you get somebody on that,' but I was so hyped up, ready to fight. I was like, 'It's alright, it's alright'. I never thought he'd be a cheat. I thought he was a professional, a fair and square type of guy. He's been cheating his whole career."
-Joppy


David Reid was doing well in his battle with Trinidad, until a huge left hook sent him reeling. Since that point, Reid's fortune in that fight and his career have taken a sharp decline.

"I got caught with a good left hook," admitted Reid. "I got hit, but I wasn't supposed to get hurt that long a time. And when he hit me, I said to myself, ' OK, I'll lose the next two rounds, the eighth and ninth,' but I didn't recuperate until the 12th round."

But in reality, Reid fading badly down the stretch in fights had become a common occurrence. In earlier fights against the likes of James Coker and Kevin Kelly, Reid would struggle to make it across the finish line.

So how did James Fisher and Naziim Richardson, the two representatives from team Hopkins find what the other camps couldn't?

Fisher, who's father Bouie, is the trainer of Hopkins, explains what happened that night at the Madison Square Garden.

"Brother Naziim and I were the first two from our camp to go in there and when we came in, they had one of Tito's hands already wrapped. Basically, the New York inspector, he was a Puerto Rican guy also, he said to us that he guaranteed that the hand-wraps were correct. That this was his job, he was doing it for many years and basically that he wasn't going to have him take it off. So it became an argument, we went back and forth."
-James Fisher (Bouie Fisher’s son)



"Eventually, we had him send a superior and he came in and he told them that we had to be there (to see the hands wrapped), so he got mad at me and asked me to leave because there was only one supposed to be one representative. So I stayed there 'till they started cutting off the hand wraps and when they cut it off they needed 'the jaws of life' to get 'em off."


So how exactly were Trinidad's hands wrapped?

"They were basically layering his hand, he had gauze, tape, gauze, tape, gauze, tape — it was like four or five layers, in contrast to being a layer of gauze, with a knuckle pad which was gauze and then layers of tape. They had four of five layers of gauze and tape."


It's been speculated that by applying tape onto the skin, that it takes on a 'cast'-like hardness, but according to noted trainer Teddy Atlas, more needs to be done to have that effect.

"That happens only if you put layers of tape on top of that, intertwining layers of both gauze and then compressing that gauze on tape on top of the gauze over the knuckle area. And you're not allowed to put tape over the knuckle area."

So after threatening not to fight if they were made to re-wrap, Trinidad did just that, but not without a fuss.

"We made them re-wrap," said Fisher. "That was first. Then they wrapped the hands the exact same way, that's when Brother Naziim was like, You can't do this, he's wrapping his hands wrong. It's too much gauze and tape that going to be on his hand.' That's when they called for my dad, my dad came in there and shared his thoughts on how it was wrong.

"And the guy who was the inspector, he should be fired from the New York State Athletic Commission, because he was so biased. When my dad came to the dressing room, they went back and forth and the same guy, he told my dad, 'Well, you can wrap your fighters hands the exact same way I'm letting Tito wrap his, Tito's not going to change his wraps. My dad told him, 'Bernard's used to having his hands wrapped a certain way — the correct way."

Eventually, the chief inspector of the NYSAC stepped in.

"The chief inspector, he's a fair guy," states Fisher. "He told them that they had to follow therules. I guess they've been getting away with this for so long that they didn't have to follow the rules, they thought. He made them. He enforced it."

Vargas was one of many who saw this situation unfold on the pay-per-view telecast.

"That made my laugh," admitted Vargas. "I tip my hat to Hopkins first, because he caught him and I loved what he said when the commentator said, 'Bernard, he's been doing this his whole career,' and he said, 'Yeah, but it doesn't make it right.'"

 

where you got all that bull from the enquire

:hat

 

What can you say about Tito's own father admitting that #1 he's always wrapped Felix's hands illegally and #2 wrapping them legally would diminish his punching power? :-(

 

Illegal wraps are illegal wraps. I don't care if he uses plaster of paris or chainsaws. He cheated to gain an advantage.

 

your jealousy and envy are obvious

:hat

 

:good Cotto and Tito are way up there, he's not close to them yet.

Tito did demolition jobs on the 147 division against great opposition, Cotto did the same at 140 and 147.

 

I'm not jealous or envious at all. I'm not a boxer nor have I ever aspired to be one. I'm just calling a spade a spade.

 

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