Watching the Zhang fight I got the sense that he's been overrated. Still a very good counter-puncher, but also quite one dimensional. Got a little bit of poor man's Juan Manuel Marquez vibes. This is a forum with real boxing purists and hardcore fans who appreciate boxing and have a lot of boxing knowledge. Guys like Marquez and Zhang look amazing when you put a highly aggressive fighter in front of them. There can be an advantage in only opening yourself up when given a good opportunity to do so. It's a safer more cautious approach. Could explain why guys like Zhang, Marquez and even Canelo have never been knocked out. They aren't opening themselves up for huge shots. They are very risk averse fighters. Counter-punchers often times give the appearance of being more skilled, but are they truly more skilled? I don't think so. That said, I see counter-punchers as very vulnerable to fighters who aren't highly aggressive. Guys like Zhang, Marquez and Canelo have had big time troubles with guys who aren't so willing to come to them. And numerous times the guys giving them troubles are lesser fighters than the fighters they have success against. I look at fighters like Usyk and Inoue and then even old school fighters like Ray Leonard, Duran, etc. And I think specializing in the being able to create your own offense makes you a more well-rounded fighter. I think these guys are better fighters who are more difficult to expose in a stylistic sense. They adapt themselves to a variety of different fighters and styles. They don't have to rely on the other man's offense to generate their own offense. They create their offense and can bring that to the ring against any opponent.
Would you rather be Manny Pacquiao or Marquez? But seriously. At the end of the day it's how good you are overall that matters. Any style can be successful.
I think we can all agree that Pacquiao is the better fighter than Marquez. Do you not think counter-punchers look very vulnerable against cagey fighters?
Probably, yeah. Whittaker looked like **** vs Diosbelys Hurtado. He ended up winning cause Diosbelys was packing glass. Yes, I know he was past it but he was a much higher level fighter and gave Oscar hell right after that.
Any Boxer worth a damn is a good counter-puncher. The likes of Duran, Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, Louis, Usyk, Chocolatito etc were every bit the counter punchers the likes of Marquez, Canelo etc were. But they weren't just passively waiting to counter-punch when the opponent threw, they forced them to throw. Duran is arguably the best feinter ever for example, and would also constantly bait his opponents to throw shots to counter, but he always had the initiative, thus he was fighting at his own pace, and as a result took control of the fight. That made him look like a more agressive brawler, but he was every bit as skilled, well schooled and had as much finesse as anybody. There was a moment in his first fight with Leonard where he was baiting Leonard to attack him, and it wasn't working, thus Duran proceeded to send him to the ropes and he pounded his body, meaning that if Leonard wouldn't throw, he'd get punished for it. Leonard then took the bait, and got nailed even harder than when he didn't. The initiative is what separates a guy like Duran from Canelo or Marquez.
Guys like Canelo and Marquez are passive. Because they can't generate their own offense very well. When you put a cagey fighter in front of them they get passive. Put a guy who squares up and comes to them and they are in their element.
IMO 9/10 times a counter-puncher will triumph over a pressure fighter. High level counter-punchers like using lateral movement and do not generally instigate exchanges, which often leads to pressure fighters just throwing caution out of the ring when they see the counter-puncher not budging, leading to them getting punished for their mistakes. Make em miss, make em pay type of stuff.
But you can get aggressively minded counter punchers too. Guys like Tyson and Benn were basically counter punchers. They would press and use head and upper body movement to draw a lead then smash you with a counter, it's in part why they were such devastating punchers. Same with Hamed, at least when he was with Ingle, once he left him, he abandoned his counter punching style and would just rely on speed to launch big shots at opponents, which is why in part guys started taking him the distance. But overall I'd prefer to be a good counter puncher, it's a much harder skill to master than simply being fast and getting off first. I'd much rather be a Danny Garcia than an Amir Khan.
Good points. But I'd rather be Barrera than Hamed. Once Barrera slowed down the workrate and refused to give Hamed openings the guy couldn't do anything. A counter puncher like Hamed can't generate his own offense very well.
An aggressive counter-puncher that wants you to or is comfortable when you lead, and threatens with consequences of an alternative action if you don't. Napoles, Tyson, Duran.