Wow... Frazier REALLY does hate Ali

Ali vs Norton wasn't good stuff at all. If their names were Smith and Gardner, it wouldn't have been any notorious than the Holyfield-Ruiz trilogy. None of the fights was really interesting and the last one had a terribly bad decision.

 

Agreed - terrible fights

 

Willie the "Worm" Monroe was sitting at ringside in the corner behind Ali and he heard Ali say "Cut these things off, that man's crazy, I ain't going back out there." Dr Ferdie Pacheco said the exact same thing with regards to Ali wanted to quit after the 14th round. The only person in the corner who ignored Ali was Angelo Dundee.

I believe Ali was more exhausted than Frazier, the evidence is there when he collapsed in his corner after Eddie Futch stopped the fight. Frazier was the fighter with energy getting up and protesting to Futch, but Eddie sat him down and told him it's all over.

I also don't believe this notion that Frazier was badly behind on points. That's utter garbage. Red Smith and Dave Anderson had Frazier ahead based on his work from the 5th round. Other writers had the fight dead even going into the 13th round. Frazier was arguably behind in the scoring but not as "badly" behind like some say he was.

 

The scores according to Boxrec: 66-60, 66-62, 67-62 (Padilla himself has also verified that he had Frazier way behind)

 

I don't like him either, but can you give more detail into this?

 

Anyone in the UK that has not seen the documentary in question, starting on 4 in a couple of minutes, well worth staying up for

 

It was stated that he wanted his gloves cut off after the 14th by Monroe who was sitting close by and the fight doctor in Ali's corner. Frazier was exhausted but not like Ali, if you can recall he collapsed after the fight was stopped but Frazier was ready to jump and protest. The fight would have definetly been stopped if he tried the rope-a-dope. Ali would be taking punishment as Frazier would play it smart and pick his spots, hit the body and ultimately knock Ali out.

 

It's just started on Channel 4 (about 10 mins in) - if you want to watch it from the start - it'll be on Channel +1 in about 50 mins.

 

Well, this was an interview before the 1st fight just after his return from exile. Watch for yourself.

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That was almost 10 minutes of solid ping he gave him. This was tame compared to what would come but if you had helped a guy and then listened to that ... you'd be pretty pissed.

 

Generally I would hear a someone's arguments on their merits and not on the character of the individual making that argument,but didn't Red Smith loathe Ali with a passion?

Shame,because he wrote so well and for the most part didn't have a one-eyed hatred for any other prizefighter you could name.

 

Ali took the early rounds, Frazier the middle and Ali the later until the stoppage. Frazier needed a knockout.

Sure it was a brutal fight, and as far as "beatings" go, it was a close fight, but on just a points system as the fight was score, Ali was ahead and by a good margin. The 11, 12, 13, and 14 rounds were big rounds for Ali, the 12th round mostly when Ali knock out Joe's mouth guard and ruin Fraizer's face.

 

I just saw it.

Very powerful documentary. The best I've seen (on boxing) since When We Were Kings.

 

Ali did especially pick on Frazier, in the doc somebody throws a stuffed toy gorrila into the ring and Ali hits it saying its Joe Frazier! Joe Frazier. The thing is that was actually his preparation for the Foreman fight and yet Ali still couldn't stop abusing Joe.

IMO if I was Joe and had to go through the **** he did I probably wouldn't have forgived him. We forget that at the time the Heavy weight champion of the world was the number one prize in sport and with Ali being one of the biggest characters in the world his words affected many people. An appology is not an excuse, does a Nazi war criminal deserve forgiveness just because he appologises? And as was mentioned in the doc Joes son was getting beaten up because of his words.

Don't get me wrong I'm a huge Ali fan he was larger than life and had a eyecatching personality but he went to far with Joe.

 

Okay, maybe I overreacted, but who the hell is he of all people to be critical of Joe when Joe enevr did a damn thing to him? **** this wannabe doctor.