Writer debunks "The Four Who Baffled Liston Article"

If he had watched the fight hr couldn't be unaware that Machen had an injury. It's plain as day.

The SI article lets past opponents give their views. That's by definition subjective, as are all these "best I've faced" etc. Doesn't mean they're not interesting and that things in them can't seem to make a bit of sense.

 

Precisely what I believe too. Even if one disagrees where else can you find such interesting quotes? I think “The Four Who Baffled Liston” is a very historically important article. It is a real insight into the views of former foes about a current champion whilst he is still at the pinnacle of his greatness. It is not the views of decrepit older men looking back many years into their glory days, years after the death of Sonny, through the benefit of hindsight. They are talking about the current champion who hasn’t yet lost the title, who people are beginning to believe might be just about unbeatable. I think it is important to know what they thought at that time.

I think it is unhealthy to only want to believe there was always some unanimous belief among everyone who fought Sonny that they were all so very grateful to have been beaten by him.

A fight is between two guys. Both want to win. Both have a story.

 

In the June 1959 issue of the Ring Al Buck has an article in which he interviews Rocky Marciano about the then contender Sonny Liston.This is just after the DeJohn fight.
Marciano says this about Sonny ." His left jab is the best of any fighter I have seen since Joe Louis."
"This fellow gets real force into his jabs,like Joe used to do.""He's not quite as good as Louis,but he's great,just great."
The left jab set up DeJohn.Then Liston cut him down with body punches.To me he appeared a more effective puncher than Charles." "I would have to say Ez was a better boxer."
"I though Liston looped his punches more than he should,he should shorten them up more"."he can move faster than Jersey Joe ,and don't get the idea he was slow,Walcott could get places in a hurry with his shuffle off to Buffalo time step."Buck asked if Liston could take it?.Rocky replied . "He really didn't have to ,fighting DeJohn. A couple of uppercuts shook Liston.His legs wobbled,but he came right on again." Asked to rank Liston against his contemporaries Marciano said,"I'd rank Liston no2 right behind the Swede"
I'd guess he can beat the Englishmen,and he can beat the others I've seen ,including Charley Powell,and Nino Valdes." "He might even beat Patterson."

DeJohn.A couple of uppercuts shook Liston.His legs wobbled,but he came right on again"

 

Yes, this is also historically important. Equally important is what the four who all fought Liston all thought after baffling him.

 

If they baffled him which imo is far from proven.
Q .How many of them beat him?
A.One by split decision, when he was green and fighting with a broken jaw , and he was destroyed in the rematch, and by his own admission ,ran like a thief in the rubber match ,terrified of Liston's power, not winning a single round.
Conclusion=No broken jaw, no split decision loss!

 

The loss is not really that relevant. The only relevant thing is that Liston did not have it all his own way winning those fights as he developed as a fighter...as all champions do.

These recent testaments of his opponents while Sonny was champion.. are historically very important. More important than somebody trying to debunk them later on. And by some distance.


Certain opponents can be baffling. I cannot think of one fighter who went through his career without being baffled from time to time.

You do no service to Sonny Liston by defending him as some unique case who was an absolute exception from all of this bafflement that everyone experiences.

I don’t understand this, and quite frankly, think it rather peculiar that you do?

 

Liston a seven fight novice, fighting from the 4th round with a broken jaw loses a split dec.He subsequently owns his opponent in the two rematches
Liston fails to stop the number 3 ranked heavyweight,but wins a U DEC.
Liston goes the distance with Whitehurst ,after having him on the verge of a ko in the 5th rd he wins a U DEC.
Rematch with Whitehurst, Liston knocks him out of the ring in the last round he still is trying to get back in when the final bell rings saving him from a ko. The scorecards are 50-37 ,50-40,48-39.In Liston's favour.
Liston wasn't superman, he couldnt stop everyone, but neither was he baffled by the opponents in this load of BS and those 2 that have gleefully seized upon it have a long history of bias against him! It can be summed up in one word imo,it begins with A**** and ends with A!

 

This from a guy who questions why could Jeffries knock Sharkey out! Liston was baffled more than one opponent and failed to knock several out.

 

Stop keep saying Liston was a seven fight novice each time he fought Marshall. Sonny was having his 14th fight the last time he fought Marshall. And he was still baffled enough that time to have bleeding lip and bloody nostril (taking wild haymakers that all landed) whilst winning all the rounds of that fight.

 

no mention of Whitehurst tagging Liston with a right hand that made an impression on him?

I think it is rather biased not to take issue with the fact that the second article says Liston twice went the distance with a guy who was “pitifully unskilled”. I am defending Sonny here. He was too good to have laboured for 20 rounds against a pitifully unskilled opponent. Whitehurst was good.

 

I was referring to the ONE fight of the THREE that Marshall managed to WIN BY SPLIT DECISION
The two other fights with Marshall.
Lets look at them.

2. Marshall with 32 fights under his belt to Liston having his 9th.
Liston floors Marshall 4 times for 9 counts in the 5th rd he floors him a further 3 times in the 6th to prompt the referee to stop the slaughter.
"He hit me like no man should be hit.He's tough.That's one thing nobody can deny about that man.
He hurts when he breathes on you." Marshall ,after the fight speaking to George Puscas of The Detroit Free Press.
Two fights after the defeat the "bafflement" seems to have disappeared!
3. Marshall is in his 36th fight Liston his 14th .Marshall manages to make the 1 st round even then loses all the next 9.

He runs like a thief making no attempt to win,he is strictly there to survive.
"I just knew I couldn't let him touch me" Marshall after the third fight.
Liston gets a nose bleed whoop de doo! Ali had several in fights, was he baffled in them?


PATHETIC!!

 

agree. no argument here.

Liston was said to be disappointing in this fight. Predictable. Plodding. Easily hit. Even though he won clearly.

The report said “Marshall who sighed for the match on four days notice when Johnson came up with a shoulder injury, had given Liston his only defeat in the first of their two earlierbouts. Last night, when he wasn’t running, he appeared to imitate Tommy Hurricane Jackson.
Ponderous and plodding, Liston won the decision without losing a round and dealt out heavy punishment all through the second half of the fight. But Marshall however he did it, succeed in making Liston look bad.”

Now I don’t know about you but usually if the winner of a fight is made to look bad it is usually because he has found the opponent baffling. Seems Marshall was an awkward little Guy. And tough.