You cannot just clump the Klits's resumes together and call them both ATGs

lol just noticed that

oscar looked so flabby in that fight. worst shape ive ever seen him up until the dehydrated oscar in the manny fight.

 

Rose tinted spectacles is the phrase you were searching for.

 

What is this ****? So now you're arguing that Mike Tyson, Holyfield, James Toney, Foreman etc are not hall of fame fighters. The absurd tripe Mayweather fanboys come up with is insane.

 

to be honest, i didnt even read the question properly but to answer your question....

those guys are obviously all-time greats but 1 win over a great fighter who was way past their prime doesnt mean you become an all-time great. like i said in my previous post, i dont believe calzaghe has a signature win that propels him to atg status because the great fighters he fought were over 5 years or more past their prime.

peace.

 

Why not, what difference does it make? There are no notable victories on either resume.

 

If you don't like a boxer and you try to diminish his accomplishments, one just has to change the rules and hide behind so called "objectivity".

There is no way Vitali would have gotten credit for beating an old, completely past prime Tyson had Tyson beaten Danny Williams, yet that would have been an ATG name on his resume but in no way an indication of his level, those that claim so are full of sh*t and grasping at straws, like that ***** thread starter.

 

Anybody can use some stat to say anything.

Vitali had a chance to beat faded greatness and lost.

No 'great' loses to shot versions of the previous era's champion.

No great fights weak guys from just one org while he has a tag partner to fight the rest.

Vitali was just a good fighter in a weak era. Nothing more and certainly not an ATG. You need to understand what makes fighters 'great'.

 

Give it a rest. They are both ATGs.

 

thumbsup:thumbsup great post!

 

Dumbest argument ever when you consider that those 10 defenses and 3 titles were collected while *not* fighting the other best HW in the world.

Vitali is NO ATG...

 

Both Klitschkos are extremely overrated since they have annually been placed among the top 10 p4p for the past few years in several p4p lists. To claim that they are underrated is fallacious and a terrible farce. Simply copy pasting statistics such as the Klitschkos W-L record or KO ratios and numerically comparing them to other great heavyweights simply demonstrates an inability to use logical thinking and an inability to put these misleading statistics into context. After the Holyfield Bowe Tyson Lewis era was finished, the post early 2000s heavyweight division became the weakest division in the history of any weight class of any era since perhaps the beginning of boxing as a sport.

All of the wins in both Klitschkos resumes come against fighters years and years beyond their prime, with padded records, with no name fighters who should not be in a boxing ring to begin with, or some combination of these flaws.

The biggest and most impressive win on both Klitschko's resume is Samuel Peter - who still managed to knock down the bum Wladimir 3 times in one fight. Samuel Peter as your best win does not make you an all time great or a top 10 p4p fighter for several years. In a weak era where Samuel Peter was the best fighter you beat (and one that Wladimir struggled with), it doesn't matter how many title defenses, knockouts, wins, etc. you have. You are not among the elite.

Lennox Lewis - even at 38 years old, fat, in the worst shape of his career, was barely losing on the scorecard 58-56 to Vitali - which could easily have been scored a draw at that point (yet so many idiotic fans try to use this slim edge as validation that Klitschko "won" the fight) and still managed to take complete control of the fight heading into the 6th round and smashed Vitali's face so badly that a medical professional could not allow Vitali to get further annihilated and, in hindsight, Lennox exposed Vitali as a fraudulent champion fighting in a weak era like Rocky Marciano.

Vitali was not dominating the fight. He had a decent start and as the fight went on he was eating uppercuts left and right and continued to clinch excessively. Lennox Lewis (remember - a 38 year old, fat, out of shape Lennox Lewis) still gave him fits and forced a doctor to stop the fight because Vitali was taking such a beating. Ironically people consider this humiliating face bashing to be Vitali's shining moment - that shows how overrated of a boxer you are when getting your faced smashed while having the slimmest of leads on the scorecard is your crowning achievement.

What I have written is UNDISPUTED truth and FACTUAL. This is not opinion or conjecture. I challenge any human being on earth to try and dispute the infallible assertion that, in general, the Klitshkos are extremely overrated by the media and public.

The following arguments do not disprove what has been written above and if one uses these fallacious arguments it will only prove one's own incompetence - much like Wladimir proved his incompetence as a boxer in getting demolished by Brewster (and falsely making up a poison excuse, no less.) Sanders and Puritty, and how Vitali demonstrated his incompetence as a boxer in having a relatively terrible performance against a trash version of Lennox Lewis.

1) Vitali is 45-2 with losses coming by injury stoppages and a 87% KO ratio. Wladimir is 59-3 with 51 KOs. Few boxers can match these numbers.
And who was the best opponent these boxers beat? Samuel Peter. Padded records mean nothing. Brian Nielsen was 49-0 at one point. Eric Esch was 61-1-3 at one point. Copy pasting statistics does not prove anything when you fail to put them in context. I highly doubt anyone is foolish enough to put Eric Esch above Evander Holyfield despite the fact that Esch has a higher winning percentage. If Holyfield fought both Klitschko's level of competition he would walk through them without a scratch.

2) Lennox Lewis was afraid of Vitali and ducked a rematch.
First of all - Lennox Lewis made Riddick Bowe duck HIM, he fought Holyfield twice, was willing to fight Tyson for several years and finally did, fought Mccall and Rahman even after being KOd, and Tommy Morrison, but some people are foolish enough to think he is scared of fighting KLITSCHKO of all people???
Secondly as mentioned several times - Lennox was 38, fat, in the worst shape ever, past his prime, and still made Vitali's face look like the deer my friend killed and put through the grinder a few weeks ago.
Thirdly - Why should a man in the physical twilight of his career (Lennox) risk his health for one more fight when he didn't take the fight seriously in the first place (still winning by TKO) and already proved his place among the all time greats? Vitali should be on his knees kissing Lennox's feet for even giving a bum like Klitschko the opportunity to fight an all time great like Lennox. Lennox isn't in the position of Joe Louis who had to come back and fight because of IRS problems, so he has no reason to risk his health after already risking it for over a decade against fighters lightyears beyond Klitschko.

3) the Klitschkos are foreign so they do not get respect.
really? Marquez, Pacquiao, Chavez sr, Duran, Monzon, Sergio Martinez, Genady Golovkin, Adonis Stevenson, Maidana, Rigondeux, Donaire do not get respect?
anyone who said this - shut up. No need to pull the race/nationality card

4) The Klitschkos have X amount of title defenses
Again, copy pasting statistics does not prove anything. Look at the men that the REAL heavyweights had to fight compared to the bum Klitschkos.
Bowe, Lennox, Moorer, Tua, Tyson, Evander, Morrison, Spinks, Foreman, Patterson, Frazier, Norton, Liston, etc.

Now lets compare the Klitschkos wins - Peter, old washed up Mercer, old washed up Rahman, Chris Byrd, Orlin Norris (who lost to a washed up Tyson), Purrity, Sanders, 38 year old fat Lennox, Chisora, Haye, Povetkin, Eddie Chambers. the hilarious thing is that they actually lost to some of these fighters on the list.

HUGE difference in competition.

Anyone who legitimately believes the farce that either Klitschko is an all time great heavyweight (let alone an ATG p4p fighter) is simply one of the many sheep that blindly follow the herd without thinking for themselves. I have blessed such blind sheep with my wisdom and knowledge and opened their eyes to the truth. It is time for these blind sheep to acknowledge the truth, otherwise I fear that these sheep blindly stumbling through the dark for so long will deny the truth even more vehemently now that these blind sheep have been exposed to the light of truth.

You do have to give the Klitschkos credit for dominating the division, even though it is incredibly weak. That in itself deserves SOME merit. You should not, however, put them among the all time greats after Vitali has been exposed by Lennox Lewis and Wladimir got showed up by Purrity Brewster and Sanders, and struggled against Sam Peter.

Again - I challenge any human being to try and refute my indisputable factual statements at the risk of making themselves look as incompetent as the Klitschkos in their attempts to be ranked among all time great heavyweights. If any human being can refute the irrefutable facts listed, I will respond and recognize their superior wisdom and knowledge. Unfortunately for Klitschko fans, the only people who possess wisdom and knowledge superior to myself would never try and refute these facts in the first place. There is no knowledgeable human being that can claim the Klitschkos are ATG boxers, or even ATG heavyweights.

 

Peter beat Toney. Toney is first ballot HOF worthy.

Sanders beat Wlad. Wlad is most likely going to the HOF.

Ibragimov beat Holyfield. Evander, like James, is a lock for the HOF - first ballot.

Byrd beat a number of guys who are going to the HOF.

Briggs beat Foreman - who's probably already in the HOF.

Williams beat Tyson. See above.

 

and Castillo.

 

You MAY know everything!

 

Get me a chicken shish kebab and then we can talk, btw vitali won chisora fight pretty convincingly despite being 40 years old.