you know what i'm getting tired of? kevin rooney

I didn't know this till recently but apparently Kevin Rooney once fought Alexis Arguello

 

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Yikes Rooney went down like a sack of bricks

 

One of my favourite knockouts.

 

for one thing I think that if Tyson did not fall into the hands of King he would have stayed with Rooney and hot have gone to Indianapolis in 1991.
Tyson would have beaten Douglas. Douglas has the right style to beat Tyson and was very cappable when he bought his "A" game like he did that night. However Tyson's "A" game > than Douglas's "A" game Tyson wins by late round ko. Tyson is 38-0-0.
Next is Holyfield in Ocotober of 1990. This is not 96/97. Holyfield will stand and trade with Tyson show a lot of hart, but Tyson will make him miss and pay. Holyfield had a good chin in most cases I would say Tyson early to mid round ko I would say Late round ko or clear decision for Tyson who is now 39-0-0.
In April of 91 Tyson faces Foreman. Story has it that His child hood mentor and adopitive father Cus D'matto told him that Foreman is a bad match up for him. This is were Roony if this story is true proves his worth. The older version of Foreman liked to use the crab defense. It is an efficitive defense but puts the hands in a bad poistion for punching. In other words Foreman will be looking for the knock out. In the early rounds Tyson will find Foreman's body an easier target than his head. People will point out the Frazier fights as reasons that Foreman will win. While simmler Tyson and Frazier are not the same, and this is not the Same Foreman who beat Fraizer twice. Foreman could hit but like I said above the crab defense would limit his offense. Tyson goes to Foreman's body right away. Tyson was a smart puncher and would not waist his punches. If and when Foreman opens up and starts to punch himself Tyson will use his speed to create countering opertointies to Foreman's head. The early body work having taken effect Tyson wins by mid round ko. 40-0-0.
Feb 1992 Tyson faces Ruddock. Ruddock gives a good account of himself before getting stoped late. 41-0-0.
June 92. Comeing off his upset of Mercer Holmes gets a scond shot at Tyson. Holmes seemed to give Tyson problems in the early part of thir first fight when he was holding and hitting he was not wining rounds but he gave Tyson problems and got into trubble when he opened up his offense. I see Holmes doing a lot of hitting and holding and frustrating Tyson. I do not see him wimming rounds. Tyson by lopsided decision. 42-0-0.
November of 92. Tyson and Holyfield rematch tat plays out much like their first fight. 43-0-0.
May of 1993. Tyson vs. Bowe. Both Bowe and Lewis are raising stars but this is tie fight HBO wants (yes I think he would still be with HBO and not have switched to Showtime.) Bowe in his prime would beat a lot of very good heavyweights and give the rest a lot of problems. Bowe gives Tyson a lot of problems but Tyson prevales with a close decision. 44-0-0.
There will be calls for a rematch but Tyson's brain trust will look elsewhere for now.
Ocotober 1993. Tyson takes on Lewis. Lewis along with Bowe are the heavyweight divisions raising stars. in 2002 A prime Lewis ko'd a will past his best Tyson in 8 rounds. In 93 Lewis was still devloping. While he is showing the signs of his feture greatnes he is not their yet. Lewis will have his molmets but Tyson would prove too good in and compelling but short fight Tyson by mid round ko. 45-0-0.
April 1994 Tyson vs Moorer. There have been talks of Tyson/Bowe 2 but Holyfield beat Bowe in November of 93 in a mild upset. Paving the way for Moorer to get his shot at Tyson. More could hit but he could also be hit Tyson by early ko. 46-0-0.
September 94. Tyson vs. McCall. Not sure what McCall did to get this fight other than Bowe is still trying to get his career back on track after his close loss to Holyfield, A third match up with Holyfield will be a tough sell. A second fight with Foreman is also possible hear as well. McCall has never been ko'd. His only stopage loss was his crying tko to Lewis that has not happened yet. McCall will still be on his feet in the nid rounds when the refree stops the fight. 47-0-0.
Tyson at this point would anounce his retirement just 2 wins shy of 49-0 and 3 wins shy of 50-0. His resume is an impresive one but people will question why he and Bowe who has recovered from his loss to Holyfield have not rematched.
June 1995 the retirement is short and Tyson and Bowe meet for a second time. Like the first match up it is a tough fight for both this time Bowe is the winner. 47-1-0.
December 1995 Tyson vs. Mathis Jr. This goes the way it did in real life Tyson ko 3. 48-1-0
July 1996. Tyson vs. Bowe 3. Bowe is coming off a victory over Holyfield and as champion is the favorite going into the fight. Real life for a second hear this is the time of Bowe/Golota. and while I think Bowe was on the decline I think the low blows played a role in their fights I'm not saying Bowe would have won but I think it is a real posibilty and I don't see Tyson gowing south on Bowe.)Back to the what if part. I do think Bowe by this time has lost a step and Tyson who is nearing 30 may have as well by this time even with Roony in his cornor. They might not be at their best anymore but they once again like the first two bouts they give boxing fans a night to remember. Tyson comes out on top. 49-1-0.
December 96. Tyson vs Golota. Tyson by very early ko. 50-1-0.
Tyson retires this time for good.
Conclusion: It is amazing what the simpleest changes can make. If Tyson Stayed with Cayton after the death of Jacobs he would most likly stucked with Rooney as his trainer and not have gone to Indianapolis in 1991. The course of boxing history would have been changed.

 

disagree.

If Rooney is so terrific of a trainer, why has nobody else gone anywhere with the guy? It's been 20 years and lots of fighters have had lots of trainers and a guy--supposedly a big difference maker--has been invisible.

 

Agreed with the thread starter, Rooney is a horrifically overrated trainer. And I've never seen people make so much fuss about a fighter's break with a trainer; you'd think Tyson was the first fighter in history to change trainers.

 

Exactly what I've been saying forever.

The only notable fight I can remember him training was Pazienza for his rubber match with Haugen.

By contrast, look at all the success Rooney's replacement had - he trained Frankie Randall to upset Chavez, he turned Julian Jackson into a world class fighter, he carried Tim Austin through a long title reign, etc. Given that Rooney is supposedly so much "better" than him, where is his whole stable of fighters??

I'd say if anything, it was Tyson who made Rooney more than vice versa.

 

It's not that Rooney was a great trainer. He wasn't. What must be remembered is that Rooney was training Tyson based on a particular system; call it the Cus system if you will.
It was the same system that Atlas was teaching Tyson, who no doubt learned it from Cus.
If Atlas had still been training Tyson, you'd see the exact same Tyson. They trained fighters (or at least Cus' fighters) based on a system.

Rooney was probably a good disciplinarian, but as a trainer I doubt he had an original thought in his head.
One of the key aspects was that not only was Rooney reinforcing the same system that Mike had learned with Atlas before, but he had Tyson's trust and respect.

That's what made the relationship work.

 

Rooney isn't some great trainer, it was a chemistry thing. Tyson and Rooney worked well together.

It's funny, two Tyson trainers, Rooney and Atlas, get so overrated by many, yet the one who is underrated (Snowell) did good work after the infamous condom on the eye. Atlas gets credit for inspiring Moorer to his title win against Holyfield, but following the rounds where Atlas was pleading with Moorer to fight harder, Moorer would just go on and sleep-walk even more. Atlas didn't do too well with his other fighters either.

Snowell did good work after the infamous Tokyo debacle with Tyson. He trained Julian Jackson for some title defenses, trained Frankie Randall for his upset win over JC Chavez, and worked with Tim Austin as well.

 

I've been saying this forever as well.

Moorer won the title on a bizarrely scored split decision, nothing to do with Atlas' ranting.

 

Sometimes a boxer gets the right trainer and a trainer gets the right boxer. Such was the case with Mike Tyson and Kevin Rooney.

 

I didn't have a problem with Moorer winning, as I felt he did the better work with an effective jab. However, him winning because the 2nd round was scored 10-10, when Holyfield dropped Moorer with a left hook, is just strange.

A similar fight was Hopkins-Taylor 1. Taylor winning is one thing (I had it even), but Duane Ford actually gave Taylor the 12th round, and therefore the fight, 115-113.

 

How many great fighters come along? Damato had two or three. Your talking about guys who they developed from amatuers. You cant make chicken salad out of chicken ****. Takes a special type of fighter to master that style too. Rooney also had some problems personally with gambling and alcohol. Combine that with his no nonsense approach to training and it was hard for him to land fighters. He brought Omar Sheika up from the amatuers and about half way through his pro career before Sheika left him, and he did pretty well for Pazienza after his comeback from the car accident. He also worked with Sam Peter who left him because Rooney was too hard on him. He worked out with Tua for a while and he wound up leaving too. Rooney believed in a lot of sparring and gym fighting to prepare his fighters. Not too many guys want that type of rigorous training. The guy knows boxing, in fact there is a lot of really good trainers, who never land that "masterpiece" that makes them a household name amongst boxing fans.

 

And lots of times when a guy loses the first thing they do is hire another trainer. So how come it was never Rooney? If the guy is so terrific, where are the disciples? The other managers and promoters would've insisted upon their guy getting trained by a Rooney. All I see are Jeremy Williams types. And if he has alcohol and gambling problems that's a serious flaw and subtracts from the word great.

And D'Amato taught a style. That style worked effectively but not always. And when it did fail, it tended to fail big.