Young Pipino Cuevas destroys Angel Espada

to properly assess the man we have to focus in on that window of time after sufficient development and before all the wars caught with him. Ray Leonard never had any wars to speak of.

I will grant you that the Norris fight had transformed Leonard into a shell the same way. However, what you seem to keep forgetting is that Camacho was even more the shell than Leonard and really should not have been licensed to fight after 1992, so it evens out.

 

:yep I'm not going down this road, i seem to recall i and many others have been here before,we could be here all day!

 

what road? :huh

 

well, just look at him in uno mas. I couldnt find one thing to fault. Steve Farhood said he fought the perfect fight and Tim Ryan congradulated him saying "what an absolute masterful performance"

But then, Sugar Ray had never faced anyone with TN's speed before. Ray's pre-Norris competition was not the best and it took a Terry Norris to bring him down to reality.

And while Ray took his lumps from TN, Camacho took far worse punishment from JCC and with double the fights Ray had. I actually had hector losing to 45 year old Duran which means that Camacho-leonard was an even fight on paper and the press even had Ray as a big favorite.

Even tho Ray was much bigger physically, Hector showed more than ray inside where it counts. His mental toughness and superior ring experience allowed him the chance to demonstrate that he was the better man. All this from a blown up featherweight :yep

 

Yeah, that first fight with Duran was a snoozefest. :roll:

You mean the way Leonard shouldn't have been licensed to fight after suffering a detached retina almost a decade earlier?

 

that's not a war, that's a grabbing contest

retina, what damaged retina? Why no thumbless gloves after 1987? that's a fair question

 

I couldnt and neither could Tim Ryan or Steve Farhood. In fact, he won ever round. Shot fighters dont win shut outs and they dont have their legs. December 1989 Ray Leonard had PLENTY of that left!

Negative effort? Yes, but this is what we saw in 1980 New Orleans. It's a fact

 

please. Tommy didnt have any idea how to even clinch and NO he didnt not have Norris' speed or versatility otherwise we have seen a shut out.

Norris had the kind of speed that he could deliver his crippling left hook before you can even think of avoiding it and with Leonard's style he simply stays in front studing for openings too long. That's the way he always fights. Check for yourself

Now, did Tommy have a left hook or left upercut like Norris? Did he know how to bide his time until he saw the right opening like Norris? Did he have the proper balance like Norris or was he stumbling around on stick thin legs? Did he carry his guard high like Norris or were his hands dangling by his sides? Tommy dont even know how to fight in a crouch the way Terry do. Terry got a totally different style that ray would NEVER be able to figure out. Ray would nave be able to figure out TN's style

There are many factors involved that you cannot see that enabled Norris to run away with this fight, and one of them is that Ray simply did not have enough experience against all around fighters like Norris or Camacho. I believe a 1989 matchup against southpaw supreme Micheal Nunn would have been a great test for him.

 

I cant fault Terry for what he did to Mugabi. he was great that night, his lethal left hook an awesome weapon to behold. Once I saw him land it flush on Mugabi's jaw I knewthe fight was over. John showed amazing heart trying to survie as long as he did. I dont know of anyone else who could have held out as long as he did but his legs were comepletely gone

The Curry fight was very impressive. He knew it was do or die time and he delivered but Norris was simply too fast and too resilient. The bombs he had to absorb from Curry made me wince at times but like the great champion he is, came back just on sheer will power alone. The mark of a true champion

Meldrick? Well he was simply the fastest man on the planet but unlike Ray Leonard, Norris could deal with speed. Again, what incredible power and killer instinct shown on the part of Norris.

 

please, hagler was a relic .. yesterday's hot fighter for sure. With hands that slow it was a wonder he didnt have birds nesting on his gloves

No fighter with a detatched retina would have opted to do away with thumbless gloves after the hagler fight and you know that I'm right. The thumbless gloves in the hagler fight were just to keep up the image. Post hagler, where did they go?

 

"nearly ended his career" atsch

how long are people going to keep up this act??

 

Well actually, they are at the forefront. Tim Ryan covering just about every major fight of the decade and Farhood, reknowned boxing writer and editor of the prestigious KO magazine. Very hard to discredit their testimonies and both had nothing but praise for the footwork, the agility, the 6 - 8 punch flurries. I thought RL looked great. A little too much leg for my taste though