Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BitPlayerVesti, Sep 16, 2018.
Saw this on YouTube, not many views, so I thought some of you might like to see it.
No shadow boxing film available?
How the hell could riding a horse possibly help a boxer train for a fight?!?
None that I can find.
I've never riden a horse, so no insight there.
Watching that guy (training for a title fight?) hit the heavy bag answered a lot of questions for me...how Harry Greb (as seen in the shadow boxing video) had a great fight record, how Max Baer won a championship, how Tony Galento was a contender...the more old video I see, the worse the fighters look.
Have you actually seen Young Stribling fight. Stribling ended a lot of good fighters with those shots. Stribling would get in range take a half step back and then catch his opponent off guard with those shots. Stribbling only got stopped once in 250+ fights, which says alot about his skill.
Also, Max Baer was very skilled and an excellent puncher. Guys like Charles Martin or Travis Brown would've never been contenders in Max Baer's generation.
In addition, Tony Galento would flatten guys like Martin, Kownacki, Jennings, Breazeale, Parker, and Miller. The only competition for Galento today would be Wilder, Fury, Joshua, and maybe Whyte if he came in shape.
Not to take anything away fro Striblings accomplishments, but in over 250 fights I don't think he managed to fight even 1 black boxer. That's amazing.
Edit: not only did he not fight a black boxer, he refused to cross "the color bar". What a ****.
What basis do you have for any of these claims? I'm sincerely interested in your thought process here.
Baer was notoriously crude during his own day, and his crudeness is obvious to anyone who watches him on film.
I'm not sure Martin was ever really a contender in this era (wasn't Ring-ranked at least). But just out of curiosity--why exactly don't you think he would have been a contender in Baer's generation? Have you seen all of the guys who were? Some of them were pretty unimpressive heavyweights.
What makes you think Galento would flatten any of those guys?
Sincere question: Have you ever been around any large heavyweight boxers in action, either at a live match or in a boxing gym working out?
Unfortunately for the time it wasn't. Black fighters at the time were mostly kept out of top contenders spots when Stribling fought. When Stribling moved up to heavyweight from light heavyweight he quickly became a top contender by beating top heavyweight contender Johnny Risko. Besides Harry Wills and George Godfrey I can't think of any top ranked Black contenders at heavyweight that were around when Stribling was in the division.
Also, Jack Johnson refused to cross the color bar as well once he was champion. At the end of the day it came down to the promoters. The promoters didn't want Black champions, so that meant that there wasn't much money in fighting black fighters at the time. This is also the reason Jack Johnson had no problem refusing fights with Black fighters as well. Godfrey himself said he didn't hold it against Jack Johnson for not fighting Black opponents and knew that it was strictly business. and nothing personal.
How many of Baer's fights have you seen? In the Louis fight Baer's right hand was no good, but from every fight I've seen him in he's easily twice as skilled as Parker, who is a novice compared to Baer, but managed to be ranked as the # 3 heavyweight at one time. Baer was a well schooled boxer, but would often open up his defenses in order setup his countershots, which were very effective.
# 6 Parker vs. # 9 Ruiz
Parker is the definition of crude and mediocre. No punching power, sloppy footwork, and has proven in both the Joshua and Whyte fights to have zero adaptability. I still can't believe some people on this site and on youtube were saying that Parker was more skilled than Joe Louis himself. I knew Whyte was going to expose this kid. Parker barely beat Ruiz, who isn't half as skilled, experienced, or proven as Galento. Parker also wasn't able to neutralize Ruiz's aggression, which is a sign of how green he is.
Max Baer vs. #1 Galento
Galento early on tried to crowd Baer, but Baer started timing Galento with well timed counter rights that forced Galento to try and fight at mid range, but Baer's just picked him off.
Most top fighters don't know how to use footwork or apply punching mechanics effective. This applies to even Joshua, who I think has a lot of potential, but the Takam fight exposed how limited Joshua's punching mechanics and ring efficiency are.
Look how crude the #9 Heavyweight Breazeale is on the speed bag.
Even Joshua is very sloppy and inefficient on the speed bag and unfortunately Joshua's poor efficiency translates into his ring performances and results in Joshua struggling with opponents that he should easily beat.
At 35 seconds Baer shows much better efficiency on the speed bag and doesn't waste a motion, which why Baer never had stamina problems and was able to go 12, 15, or even 20 rounds without gassing out.
Phaintin Phil was certainly living up to his name there!
I've seen almost all of Baer's available fights. He was a crude, inconsistent fighter (not as crude as Galento though!). He was successful because of the physical advantages he enjoyed over his foes (especially his punching power, natural explosiveness, and sturdy chin). He wasn't a very skilled boxer, he didn't have great footwork, and he had poor mechanics. I can't imagine what basis you could possibly have for describing him as "well-schooled."
I still don't follow why you're so sure that Galento would have flattened any of these guys or that they wouldn't have been contenders in his era. Virtually all of the criticisms you lob at them apply with even greater force to fighters like Baer and, especially, Galento.
You think we can extrapolate meaningful conclusions about their boxing abilities based on their "efficiency" on the speed bag? I have to respectfully disagree on that one.
Interesting fact about Stribling: He was one of the highest KO counts in boxing but wasnt considered a very hard puncher. His parents, who managed him and were ex circus performers, took him on these barn storming tours against complete nobodys and washed up third raters where he would get a bunch of stoppages. It was all hype and ballyhoo they learned from their carnival days. He wasnt a bad boxer but he wasnt as good as the numbers of his record indicate. He seemed to have a lot more success against good fighters who had really weak punches (Loughran and Rosenbloom).
Watching him against Scott and Schmeling, I think while he had a good defence, he seemed to not be the best at actually using it to counter, and he had a bit of a tendancy to rush in.
Yeah, I dont consider him elite or ever a real threat to the title in any division he fought in and most experts (outside of the South) didnt think he was either but you cant write him off completely because he did notch wins over guys like Loughran and Rosenbloom. There was a repetetive pattern to his career: his parents would build him up with these wins in the sticks, get him a lot of publicity and a big money fight in New York or somewhere else, he would usually lose convincingly, then they would go back to the sticks and start all over again, beating a bunch setups really easy, get publicity, leverage bog money fight, lose. There was a bit of a shady aspect to his career due to the familys involvement in the carnival. I think to them boxing wasnt a whole lot different than pro wrestling. As long as the public was entertained for the price of admission it didnt matter if the fight was an obvious mismatch, fix, or whatever.