your #1 prime vs prime head to head heaveyweight

Norton faced two verging on three (depends who ya talk to) great jabs, i have to say it is interesting tho short.

 

I dont agree with your picks but I like them!!

Interesting selection, and I can see the sort of 'open-minded' approach you have taken , looking purely at the quality of performance on the night and not the man himself.

A few outcomes of your picks.

Holyfield must rank exceptionally high, because he lost only on points (not by KO), in a brave display, to the greatest ever H2H HW!

Tysons must rank very high, because his first loss was to the 3rd greatest ever H2H performance! And so on...

 

Mike Tyson, physical peak.

 

Not sure who I would pick on a peak h2h basis, but on purely style, versatility and being an ATG I'd have a short list of Holmes, Lewis and Ali. I believe if one had a round robin of say 10-12 ATG's one of these guys would win. Outside shots would go to Tyson, Foreman & Liston.

 

Yes, but what I did not put down, is that I only included one win for each fighter.

I can think of a few more Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe and Tyson performances that would beat some of their peers.

 

Good post...

Wasn't it you who posted that great thread last year about who would have the best record in an all time HW tourney of champions?

That was my favorite thread of them all out here, because it forced me to really consider a dark horse that I never counted as anything near a great HW champion --Sonny Liston. And then I got attacked on all ends for it, but had a great time defending the pick. I had him first then and still do.

Ali, in my opinion, would drop a decision to Frazier and a few others would come awfully close, like 1992 Bowe who I would probably favor, particularly because Futch was with him. Futch chose Louis over Ali.

The only one I actually favor over 1959 Liston is 1967 Ali.

 

The Buster Douglas who fought Tyson would have gotten his ass well and truly kicked by just about every great heavyweight.

I love the way Tyson fans have gone through about a million excuses for his loss (and they still hold on to all of them) and on top of all those excuses there's the final gem, "Douglas would've beaten almost anyone that night" ...... LOL !
No, he wouldn't have. He was a mediocre fighter. He was putting on his best career performance that night, AS YOU WOULD EXPECT from a guy challenging for the heavyweight championship of the world. Douglas beat Tyson by jabbing, moving, working off the jab and not waiting around to see what Tyson wanted to do to him. It was a very basic fight plan and he gave it his best shot with his limited talent. Tyson failed miserably to adapt, and got the **** beaten out of him.

Tyson had bucket loads of physical talent but no resolve, a killer instinct but no true champion's fighting instinct, he became a lesser fighter when his back was really up against the wall, he couldn't solve the puzzle. He got trashed.

So, to save Tyson's reputation, let's make Buster Douglas into the heavyweight Sugar Ray Robinson.

 

Nobody would ever destroy Marciano. Without wishing to sound pretentious, I'm convinced that he remains the most misunderstood and by extension underrated of the past heavyweight greats. I see him having the beating of anyone, with the possible exception of Ali.

 

What is your point exactly? That Buster Douglas was a better fighter than Mike Tyson? You're not a huge fan of Tyson, that much I've already gathered. Surely the discussion relates to a consideration of each fighter at his respective best.

 

Head to head, prime Tyson, its hard to see him getting beat by anyone..

 

Okay, if those are the parameters of the discussion then my only point is that neither Douglas nor Tyson should enter into the discussion.

At his best, Douglas was merely a good heavyweight.

At his best, Tyson was beatable by merely good heavyweights.

Actually, I'm a fan of Tyson for what he was, not for what the media hype machine wanted him to be.

 

I'm torn between a prime, motivated, Manny Steward-trained Lewis and a prime Ali who would have been great even if Buddy Mcgirt was his trainer :yep

 

Ali

 

Of course, Ali became a great fighter despite the glorified cheerleader that was Angelo Dundee in his corner. McGirt might of actually taught him a few things.

 

If I was given a blank sheet of paper to design the perfect heavyweight what I would come up with would look more like Joe Louis than anybody else. Without Jack Blackburn I doubt that Louis would have looked remotley like my fantasy heavyweight.

The thing that most seperates Louis from my fantasy heavyweight and his main weakness is his inability to think on his feet if plan A fails. If I had to hand pick sombody tobeat him then it is this weakness that I would pin most of my hopes on.

If you give me a blank sheet of paper to design a fighter to deal with Louis then what I would come up with would be a hybrid between Muhamad Ali and Gene Tunney.