Your Favourite Boxer is Overrated

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by demigawd, Jan 2, 2014.


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  1. demigawd

    demigawd Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Recently I've come upon a philosophy known as "reductive entropy" wherein essentially there is no such thing as "greatness" - it's all just mathematical chance.

    For example, if you cloned a regular Joe 100 times and put him in the ring with himself in a single elimination tournament, the winner would have a much better record than the person eliminated first. In fact, the winner will have been undefeated. And yet, it's all exactly the same person. The only thing that separated the guy who went undefeated and the guys who went 0-1 is pure mathematical chance - someone had to win and someone had to lose.

    As evidence of this, proponents say that if one team was truly better than another, you would never see upsets. The very fact that upsets exist proves that greatness isn't real. The very fact that teams or individuals can compete multiple times and have a different outcome each time proves that chance has more of an effect on an outcome than we allow ourselves to believe.

    It's also what allows people to create the illusion of greatness. According to reductive entropy, at its core, any record is built on a stack of nobodies, who built their record on a stack of nobodies, who in turn build their record on a stack of nobodies. In other words, everybody is a nobody, it's just that some nobodies had luck on their side and became somebody. It's akin to a giant Pyramid Scheme.

    So perhaps there's something to all of the trolls here who say that Robinson, Ali, and Louis are all overrated.

    What do you make of this emerging philosophy? Is there truth to it?
     
    demigawd, Jan 2, 2014
    demigawd, Jan 2, 2014
    #1
  2. big_AL

    big_AL P4P #1 Full Member

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    sounds like cyncial ******* talk to me, if greatness isn't real how come i can't dunk like michael jordan? or beat usain bolt in a race? not buying it
     
    big_AL, Jan 2, 2014
    big_AL, Jan 2, 2014
    #2
  3. Meazy-E

    Meazy-E Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Theory is meaningless.

    If you put Tom who never works out has 0 fighting experience in with Ray Robinson you are looking at Robinson winning 100 times.

    Could Tom swing one out of the blue and get a KO sure, hell it could even happen once or twice.

    However that does not imply greatness is non-existent as he may have caught Ray making a mistake. That would be an upset.

    However there is not way the end result will come out 50-50.

    Same if you put them against 100 opponents who are the same. Robinson will against more of them because he is better. Not because of a mathematical requirement.
     
    Meazy-E, Jan 2, 2014
    Meazy-E, Jan 2, 2014
    #3
  4. don owens

    don owens Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    SO........somewhere I may have a clone that always gets the ***** he wants, wins the lottery, never has hangovers, never gets speeding tickets, stays in shape without working out, and is treated well by strangers always. .....jeeezzzz
     
    don owens, Jan 2, 2014
    don owens, Jan 2, 2014
    #4
  5. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    There's something to it, but it's just one factor to consider. Anecdotally, you can find several sets of boxing twins and compare their careers (the Sullivans, the Coopers, etc.) to see how much of a role luck can play.

    Boxing is a snowball sport, though -- once a fighter gets momentum, he can get backing, training, and fights that similarly talented (but less fortunate) prospects don't.
     
    cross_trainer, Jan 2, 2014
    cross_trainer, Jan 2, 2014
    #5
  6. shoe

    shoe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    there's no chance triple G wouldn't knock out the op 100 times.
     
    shoe, Jan 2, 2014
    shoe, Jan 2, 2014
    #6
  7. Meazy-E

    Meazy-E Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I don't think it is luck, as the mentality is not the same, some fighters may fight the same, but the skill level, generalship and ability are not.
     
    Meazy-E, Jan 2, 2014
    Meazy-E, Jan 2, 2014
    #7
  8. Super Hans

    Super Hans The Super One™ banned

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    :think Interesting. My favorite boxer is Adrien Broner. Am I wrong about him being the next Mayweather then?
     
    Super Hans, Jan 2, 2014
    Super Hans, Jan 2, 2014
    #8
  9. Bub

    Bub Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Lol!
     
    Bub, Jan 2, 2014
    Bub, Jan 2, 2014
    #9
  10. JohnH

    JohnH Guest

    It could have been a draw.
     
    JohnH, Jan 2, 2014
    JohnH, Jan 2, 2014
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  11. lzolnier

    lzolnier Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It's an interesting argument, but your hypothetical example does assume that everyone is equal. Since we do know that in real life equality (talent, skill, effort etc) is not possible in an absolute or identical sense (or even in a rough sense, especially when it comes to boxing) since we are not clones, but emerge from a pretty diverse gene pool (not to mention have unique life circumstances) the premise of this argument seems to me wildly untrue.
     
    lzolnier, Jan 2, 2014
    lzolnier, Jan 2, 2014
    #11
  12. Xerant

    Xerant Gotta Hate negociations! Full Member

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    this is BS
     
    Xerant, Jan 2, 2014
    Xerant, Jan 2, 2014
    #12
  13. Bustajay

    Bustajay Feel the Steel/Balls Deep Full Member

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    :hey:yep

    :smoke
     
    Bustajay, Jan 2, 2014
    Bustajay, Jan 2, 2014
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  14. Xelloss

    Xelloss Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Quick better tell the Vegas bookies, they have probably been wondering why they lose so much money all the time.
     
    Xelloss, Jan 2, 2014
    Xelloss, Jan 2, 2014
    #14
  15. illwill007

    illwill007 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I guess if anything is possible, but if I have a cross dimension twin out there and everything always goes his way...**** him!
     
    illwill007, Jan 2, 2014
    illwill007, Jan 2, 2014
    #15
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