Your favourite welterweight v Sugar Ray Robinson

Robinson meets Montreal Duran.

Robinson has a long forgotten criticism that was out there in the 40s. Physical strength.

Duran, capable of fighting in close with men far larger and younger than he, was undeniably strong.

Would this be a factor? Yes.

Technique. Robinson was a class technician. Robinson was among the best offensive machines ever -not due to the demon speed and the power per se, put because of his combinations and punch placement, in my opinion. Duran was offensively superior as well though not at Robinson's level, but does edges him overall in my opinion due to his better set of defensive skill, infighting, & countering. Robinson could play matador and then revert to stalker on a dime like he did to Graziano, but Duran struck me as a bit less reliant on athleticism and more technically sound than Robinson -especially with age.

I see Duran fighting Robinson as he did Leonard. Arcel would know Robinson's approach; he would know that Robinson knows that Duran would be the boss inside, and that Robinson would therefore fight him from the outside using speed, straight punching, and mobility. By mobility, I don't mean the dancing show at a safe distance as Leonard was prone to, I mean a mobility that is more efficient. Robinson would be at the line where he could tag Duran but couldn't quite be reached by the smaller man. He'd angle around, and step back and off as Duran rushed and then spring forward to catch him coming in.

Duran's strategy in Montreal wasn't perfectly executed. He did at times rush straight in... and Robinson would create temptations to encourage this and then meet him.

So, Duran's strategy would necessarily be built around his assets -his superior physical strength and infighting skills. The problem is that Robinson was the ultimate matador.

Robinson, UD or possibly SD due to Duran's all-out aggression.

 

shane mosley, falls short after winning a couple of rounds but is stopped by TKO in the 9th

 

Hearns bags the early rounds with his fantastic jab, possibly even dropping Ray in the 5th with a beautifully timed right cross, but Robinson's constant pressure and power is too much with Tommy being stopped on his feet in the 9th after being pinned in the corner. I see Tommy leading handily on the cards, before the relentlessness of Robinson finally gets to him, with Hearns' legs completely gone the ref mercifully saves him.

 

wonderful. just wonderful. btw i will try to respond to our tony zale thread :good

 

Very good post stonehands .

Mine is Duran aswell, not sure about who my fave ww is, but my fave ever is Duran so its him here aswell.

I agree with your post totally. I always say that a defensive-minded fighter would never beat SRR, especially a 147 pound version of the man! Imo, you had to attack him to have even an outside prayer of a chance, so who better than Roberto (if we're talking Montreal Roberto that is)? The reason i say that about the defensive fighters against SRR is, like you say, his blistering combos were maybe the best combination of speed and power ever, but above all it was the accuracy and how calculated they were. You block your chin and you catch 5 bodyshots, and vice versa!

Anyway, i see Duran pawing with his jab early and going to the body on Ray, on the inside this is magnificent, the battle that would commence. Duran's hands were fast aswel, and he use that craftiness to dodge (or at least nullify the effect of) some powerful shots winging his way, and clearly win some middle rounds.

I think Robinson would turn boxer at this point and get some in the bag, he cant shut Duran out with his jab though, and would need to use that footwork which he employed on the offensive (trhe in and out that was a major part of his game). Duran would get back into it, and Robinson's attack would be so persistent that he edges the last rounds, but clearly, and takes it.

 

My favourite Welterweight is Sugar Ray Leonard.

Both Leonard and Robinson are terrific punchers, and both throw fast combinations. In terms of hand speed I'd be liable to give Leonard the advantage unless somebody could show me Robinson showcasing superior or equal handspeed as Leonard displayed in his battles with Hearns, Benitez, and Hagler?

Because of Leonard's superior handspeed, equal punching power, and ability to go 15 rounds at a fast pace (Hearns, Hagler), I'd give Leonard the nod for a UD 15.

 

I originally thought Hearns could win but reading your post changed my mind:good

 

You are the first poster that has gone against the grain! While i think Leonard is one of the very few that may have the outside chance, i dont see him beating Robinson

 

Sugar Ray Leonard has all of the ability to be considered the best boxer ever, he just didn't have the longevity to match.

I feel he displayed enough speed, punching power, and energy throughout his career to suggest he'd be competitive with Robinson.

 

I agree, just have the decision in this one the other way around. Ability is not everything. Im not saying anything about Leonard or taking anything away from him BTW. Despitr him having just 40 fights, i have him number 3 ATG at 147, great, elite fighter. But i feel Robinson was better.

 

impressed by this, could picture it myself:good

 

The Mosley from his early welterweight days would have given Robinson a decent tussle. The one who beat Rivera, De La Hoya, Taylor, etc. Mosley's handspeed at the weight was right up there with Leonard's IMO. Mosley was a superb pin-point puncher who could also mix it inside when a battle was fierce.

I'm not saying he'd beat Robinson, but he'd do much better than most would tend to think.

 

Oscar De La Hoya: My fav Welterweight (My Fav ODLH era)
What a match we would have right here, both of these fighter's are somewhat mirror images of each other in many way's. Both will have the POWER at this weight and both have superior boxing ability.
(tho this Era of Oscar would prob be lacking the defensive skills that the De La Hoya of today has) As a Welter De La Hoya would most likely go to war with Robinson which would ultimatly seal his downfall. IMO

I got Sugar Ray Robinson wearing down Oscar and win by either a SD.
or a late round stoppage by the De la Hoya camp in the corner. (Throw in the towel)

 

What did Robinson do better?

 

If you are talking abilty, in terms of attributes (speed etc.), then i have already said i agree with you.

The things he did better than Leonard were the aspects of the sport, not the physical gifts. Robinson's attack is better than Leonard's imo. I hate to repeat my above post , but Robinson's mixture of speed and power is still unparalelled imo, even by Tyson. Leonard couldnt throw the 8 and 9 punch combos from nowhere that finished fights AS GOOD AS ROBINSON imo. SRR's offense was so calculated and precise, you block the chin, you catch 5 to the body, and vice versa.

His footwork and defense are underated aswell imo, his in and aout movement when he turned it on was a great defense in itself. When past his prime he was still able to shut out guys with his jab, in what some would call 'snoozefests'. He was the greatest seriously, dont mean that to sound corny or anything, he just was.

Leonard was an amazing fighter though, his hooks were probably the fastest ive seen, and his combos are up there with the best speed-wise also. Just not as great as him imo