Absolutely this is what I wanted....not just a list of who you rate higher h2h but how you get them there. Appreciate it
Thank you much! I might redo mine too 20 or 25 just to see if the variable changes. I don’t just want to see a list but rather how you decide who goes on that list. A h2h ranking without records does very little to support the case or explain how and why! Thanks appreciate your breakdown very much....even if Frazier has to suffer for it lol
When time permits, can you give me a breakdown of who you had beating who? I'm curious if you have it written down or summarized somewhere. Thanks man, and cool thread
I like this. Question, it your #8-10 are losers with 1-7 ( Johnson and Frazier ) to 2-8 ( Marciano ) records vs the field, might one of the Klitschko's do a bit better?
I've had a go. I took my top 15 heavies and have re-ranked them according to my guesses of their records against one another. In the event of two fighters having a tied tied record (like Tyson and Holmes having 9-5), I'll place the winner of that particular bout ahead. The names in brackets are those who I think inflict the losses. The Klitschkos are numbers 16 and 17 on my heavyweight list; I suspect their inclusion here would have changed things somewhat. 1. Ali (13-1, Frazier) 2. Liston (12-2, Ali, Louis) 3. Foreman (12-2, Ali, Liston) 4. Louis (11-3, Ali, Foreman, Lewis) 5. Lewis (10-4, Ali, Liston, Foreman, Tyson) 6. Tyson (9-5, Ali, Liston, Foreman, Louis, Holyfield). 7. Holmes (9-5, Ali, Liston, Foreman, Louis, Tyson) 8. Holyfield (7-7, Ali, Liston, Foreman, Louis, Lewis, Holmes, Bowe) 9. Johnson (6-8, Ali, Liston, Louis, Foreman, Lewis, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield) 10. Bowe (6-8, all above him apart from Holyfield) 11. Frazier (5-9, all above him apart from Ali) 12. Dempsey (3-11, the eleven above him) 13. Marciano (2-12, the twelve above him) 14. Jeffries (1-13, the thirteen above him) 15. Wills (0-14, the fourteen above him)
Lol I tossed the list last night because I wanted to do a top 20....I excluded guys like wills Langford Sullivan Jeffries Tunney and almost excluded Johnson and Dempsey but kept them in....here is a breakdown of how I see it...I am sure others will see it different or that their own lists will differ.... Record against top 20 followed by who they lost to....or beat when I get into losing records....I didn’t score draws and made myself choose although there are several I feel are close enough to pick a draw. I have always gone back and forth on Ali vs Holmes and scored it a draw in the original post...made myself fall of the fence and chose Holmes, although I know most will disagree. 1-2 Louis (15-4) loses to Frazier, Marciano, Johnson & Schmeling lol Holmes (15-4) loses to Louis, Frazier, Tyson and Schmeling lol 3-5 Ali (14-5) loses to Louis, Holmes, Frazier, Marciano & Norton lol Lewis (14-5) loses to Louis, Ali, Holmes, Tyson & bowe Frazier (14-5 IKR lol I am a Frazier guy) loses to Lewis, Foreman, Wlad, Liston & Vitali 6 Marciano (13-6) loses to Holmes, Lewis, Wlad, Frazier, Bowe & Vitali) 7-11 Foreman (12-7) loses to Louis, Ali, Holmes, Lewis, Holyfield, Marciano, Walcott Holyfield (12-7) loses to Louis, Ali, Holmes, Lewis, Frazier, Marciano & bowe Tyson (12-7) loses to Louis, Ali, Foreman, Holyfield, Frazier, Marciano & Liston Bowe (12-7) loses to Louis Ali Holmes Foreman Frazier Tyson Vitali Vitali (12-7) loses to Louis Ali Holmes Foreman Lewis Holyfield Tyson 12 Wlad (10-9) loses to Louis Ali Holmes Lewis Foreman Holyfield Tyson Bowe Vitali 13 Liston (7-12) beats Frazier Tyson Dempsey Schmeling Charles Patterson Norton 14 Walcott (6-13) beats Foreman Johnson Liston Dempsey Schmeling Norton 15 Johnson (5-14) beats Louis Liston Schmeling Patterson Norton 16-17 Dempsey (4-15) beats Johnson Schmeling Patterson Norton Charles (4-15) beats Johnson Dempsey Schmeling Walcott 18-20 Schmeling (3-16) beats Louis Holmes Patterson Patterson (3-16) beats Walcott Charles Norton Norton (3-16) beats Ali Schmeling Charles Now I am tired of typing lol
Excellent Job!!! I liked seeing your breakdown. I'm also happy that Walcott and Johnson aren't no. 19 and 20 respectively. Those are my guys, like Frazier is yours I'm sure. I find it interesting we both pick Johnson to beat Louis. I did as well. I think in a one off fight, and the first time they meet, Johnson would spoil and neutralize most of Louis attacks while exploiting his weakness. In the rematch, I'd pick Louis, likely by stoppage.
1. Ali -loses to Marciano Frazier 2. Lewis loses Ali Foreman 3. Marciano loses to Foreman Lewis Tyson 4. Foreman loses to Ali Liston Holmes 5. Liston loses to Ali Marciano Lewis Holyfield 6. Tyson loses to Lewis Holyfield Ali Foreman 7. Frazier loses to Foreman Marciano Tyson Lewis Liston 8. Holmes loses to Everyone above but Foreman 9. Joe Louis is a tough one...he could compete w everyone and win on any day not sure to be honest 10.11 Klitschkos same as Louis. They can compete w all but could def lose to all 12. Bowe same as Klitschkos and Louis 13. Dempsey think he falls to mostly everyone and competes well with the lesser punchers 14. Holyfield great competitor and most would be matche but he would lose a lot 15. Archie in his prime could sneak in a few wins here and there over the likes of Holyfield or Dempsey maybe Bowe on a great day. But who really knows.
Awesome! Appreciate it! Even though we had different results I just wanted to see how some of us get to the point. Funny that I rated Holmes 1b and you have him at 8, part of the fun
Lewis Clay Holyfield Louis Holmes Tyson Wladamir Foreman Marciano Jack Johnson Vitali Bowe Frazier Dempsey Liston
Wow, so Lewis, Bowe, Vitali and Wlad all lose to Joe Louis?! Id bet a lot of money that would not happen. Louis at best here is 2-2, and at worst 0-4
THEN you would likely lose a lot of money....perhaps you can submit your own list instead of just surmising on others....or you can just be thankful that you can’t lose your money on imaginary fights ;-)
