Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by roughdiamond, Mar 11, 2019.
Reggie Johnson deserves a shout out in the underrated thread for sure.
There is not 1 shred of evidence Eubank was faded in 1995
Eubank was NOT FADED at age 28 when Colllins beat him.
Eubank was very overrated. Collins is underrated.
Great post, but I don't agree regarding Vitali.
He may be overrated by some fans, but I think he was very formidable. Much more formidable than Wlad. I don't think Wlad could have beaten him.
Regarding the Lewis fight, although Lewis won fair and square, with the fight being stopped due to legal shots and not a head clash, I think Lewis was lucky. Vitali was on top at that point. Afterwards, the whole boxing world was crying out for a rematch after an amazing fight. And the fact that Lewis wasn't interested speaks volumes to me.
You can't criticise him for not having fought anybody on the level of Lewis again, as:
1. There wasn't anybody on Lewis' level.
2. He had to retire the following year due to injury, where he didn't fight for 4 years, due to having multiple surgeries.
Personally, I think that Wlad was very fortunate that Vitali had to retire early. Because had Vitali not retired for those 4 years, Wlad's resume wouldn't be as strong as what it is. He would never have enjoyed the same level of dominance.
I understand your point regarding Dempsey, but saying you wouldn't favour him over LHW's is pushing it.
I'd definitely give him a chance with some large HW's, as he could have used his small size to his advantage, similar to what Tyson did.
I really like Reggie.
I'd have liked to have seen him fight at SMW.
I don't know about him being 50/50 with Ward though, and I really can't envisage him schooling Kovalev, not the pre-Ward versions. (it's clear to me that the award fights took something out of him)
I can amend it to:
He was simply never the same fighter after the Watson tragedy.
It really took something out of him.
He's admitted that on numerous occasions, and Barry Hearn has too.
He changed his style and he lost his killer instinct.
He was psychologically scarred from the incident.
By the time he fought Collins, he was unbelievably lucky to still have his unbeaten record in tact. He's admitted himself that he really lost to Benn in the rematch as well as to Dan Schommer, and he was very fortunate to get the decisions over Ray Close. He really could have had 3 defeats on his resume by 1995.
The deal that he signed with ITV/SKY, really took it out of him. He admits that it was a mistake, as it burnt him out due to a hectic schedule which saw him fight every few months.
Collins was a warrior, but nothing special. I'd pick a peak SMW version of Eubank over him.
At first glance, his record appears impressive with Eubank and Benn x 2 on it. But it's really not if you break it down.
He only fought Eubank again because their first fight was so close, and he only fought Benn again, because Benn twisted his ankle in their first fight. Also, Benn was finished then, and he should never have come out of retirement to fight Collins after losing to Malinga.
Did someone say Froch was stronger than Collins.... nah
Ant the MAN! LOL! I disagree. But it's cool. Ali had some of the fastest hands for a HW. IMO he wasn't faster than Ray Robinson, Ray leonard, Meldrick Taylor, Manny Pacquaio or Roy Jones.
Roy's reflexes were so superior, that he's the first in compubox history to finish a round with no punches landed/counted. In his prime, few fighters landed in double digits against him.
Benitez was, great, but has been hit and was hit in his prime,Ray Leonard proved that. But I agree with you JT didn't throw much. Because 1. He's a counter puncher 2. Can't hit what isn't there!
Neither Ali nor Wilfred had faster reflex than Roy. No way.
Thanks for that counter bit because I never know what to say to guys who get angry when I say Toney didn`t fight well v Roy and that he didn`t cut off the ring. Willie Pep also went a round without getting hit and he was far harder to hit than Roy maybe not because of reflexes but fast feet instead, his footwork was far better than Roy`s was.
Ali was better at evading shots and moved fast for a heavyweight he certainly had faster reflexes than Roy had at heavyweight Roy got tagged a bit by Ruiz who wouldn`t have landed a shot on Ali at all. Wilfredo slipped Tommy and Leonard`s punches very well, Roy never had that kind of offense to deal with, Benitez dodged Hearns punches while pinned on the ropes Roy never showed he could do this and was outworked in the corner by Griffin in their first fight.