Your SMW/168 Order

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by TommyV, Dec 5, 2010.


  1. SportsLeader

    SportsLeader Chilling Full Member

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    Carl Froch has never lost to Andre Dirrell, check Borec if you don't believe me. Got luck against Taylor? If knocking someone out is 'getting lucky' then there have been some very lucky fighters throughout history. Aside from maybe Kessler, can you name me someone in the super middleweight divsion who has a better resume than Carl Froch? I'll leave it with you.....
     
  2. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    Yeah I forgot about Stieglitz. He may be a top 12 super-middle. Definitely top 15.
     
  3. SportsLeader

    SportsLeader Chilling Full Member

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    But he did beat Froch, who is certainly top 3. Kessler is a tough one to rank, but he is definetely ahead of Bute. Mikkel's resume proves that.
     
  4. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    I put him up there on the poll because I've seen people ranking him #1 on the basis of head-to-head and they go on about beating top 10 super-middles. But for me, it's Ward or Froch. No way is Bute number one for me. He probably has the 4th best resumé amongst everybody and that isn't enough.
     
  5. Speedtron

    Speedtron Active Member Full Member

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    1) Ward
    2) Kessler
    3) Froch
    4) Bute
    5) Dirrell
    6) Johnson
    7) Abraham
     
  6. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    His resumé overall with the Andrade/Sartison wins amongst others put him #3. But the problem is, they were a while ago. In recent times, he hasn't been particularly active, and balancing his resumé out - Perdomo is irrelevant and therefore his resumé for the last 2 years is basically reliant on one win, albeit one very good win. That's why I'd say he has the 3rd best resumé - ahead of Bute - but head-to-head, I'd put him probably 4th or 5th right now.

    My criteria is basically split into two lists:

    01. Carl Froch
    02. Andre Ward
    03. Mikkel Kessler
    04. Lucian Bute
    05. Andre Dirrell
    06. Arthur Abraham


    That's my resumé list, head-to-head my list goes.

    01. Andre Ward
    02. Lucian Bute
    03. Carl Froch
    04. Andre Dirrell
    05. Mikkel Kessler
    06. Arthur Abraham


    So combined together, makes my list in the OP:

    01. Andre Ward (H2H #1, resume #2)
    02. Carl Froch (H2H #3, resume #1)
    03. Lucian Bute (H2H #2, resume #4)
    04. Mikkel Kessler (H2H #5, resume #3)
    05. Andre Dirrell (H2H #4, resume #5)
    06. Arthur Abraham (H2H #6, resume #6)
     
  7. WesT

    WesT Boxing Addict banned

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    How can you have a fighter Kessler who has 2 defeats he is not in his prime(best shape) and was totally outclassed by Ward in his most recent defeat winning only 1 round. Won his last fight who was very close and looked like his timing was wrong and his accuracy betrayed him most of the times; ahead of an undefeated Bute who knock's out everybody including some who were considered unknockable after a fight with the same man?
     
  8. SportsLeader

    SportsLeader Chilling Full Member

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    This, I agree with. Bute's best wins are decent, but beating Andrade and Bika does not make you the best super middleweight in the world. Ward, Froch and Kessler all have clearly superior resumes to Bute. How people can rank him above Ward and Froch is beyond me.
     
  9. WesT

    WesT Boxing Addict banned

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    It's not all about resume.

    Ps: I saw the above post
     
  10. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member Full Member

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    Kessler's win over Froch was hardly disputed.
     
  11. SportsLeader

    SportsLeader Chilling Full Member

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    Bute's resume is pretty weak in comparison to Ward, Froch and Kessler's if you look at it. Kessler's two defeats have come to the former best super-middle in the world, and the current best. Managing to beat evey other opponent he has faced is pretty stellar. Bute has not even fought anyone remoteley good as Ward or Calzaghe, his best win is over Andrade, a fighter who had him down for about 12 seconds in their first fight. Kessler may be slipping, but his resume speaks for itself. If you are going to argue that Bute's resume is better than Kessler's, then good luck.
     
  12. Imperial1

    Imperial1 VIP Member Full Member

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  13. Faerun

    Faerun Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1. Andre Ward (clinic performances overall, dominated Kessler with ease, too bad you cannot expect a KO by him)
    2. Lucian Bute (learned from his first inofficial defeat vs. Andrade and cleaned the second tier of SMWs out. Brutally.)
    3. Carl Froch (excellent resume, surely the best among all SMWs but the Dirrel and Kessler fights leave some question marks)
    4. Andre Dirrel (tends to run like a chicken but possesses mad skills. Should have gotten the decision against Froch and schooled Abraham)
    5. Mikkel Kessler (was heavily outclassed by Ward and no, the headbuts were no game breaker for him. Kessler was clearly inferior. He looked good vs. Froch, though)
    6. Glen Johnson (still does what he does best: give you hell. There's nobody in the 168-175 range who can deal with him easily)
    7. Sakio Bika (very solid fighter and I give Bute and Ward credit for beating him. Nobody has ever looked comfortable in the ring with him)
    8. Arthur Abraham (when Dirrel and Froch outboxed him they didn't even look like they needed to make much of an effort to do it. Easily outboxable by world class opposition@168)

    And after that I see guys like Stieglitz, Andrade, Brinkely, Green and so on.

    168 is becoming the hottest division in boxing and I'd be surprised if not at least one of these guys makes it into the HoF once their carieers comes to an end because there are a lot of legecay improving fights in the air for everyone.
     
  14. Hitta_Squadup

    Hitta_Squadup Beast ***e Full Member

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    Why would Carl Froch be ahead of Mikkel Kessler whom he lost to? Is it because his career is in the balance?
     
  15. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    Yes it was. I had Kessler winning by a point, but it could have been called a draw or even Froch by a round or two. There's not 7 clear Kessler rounds in that fight, which makes it disputed.