Your SMW/168 Order

Keueng · Dec 7, 2010

It's funny that AA has been no1 in many lists and now dropped to the 6th at least after Froch clinic

Badlok · Dec 7, 2010

artful said: ↑

It means nothing that Froch has beat winners :huh and Bute hasn't :nut

Bika - Solid win probably the best on his resume but still he hasn't won anything or beaten anyone at the Top level.

Berrio - Gate Keeper beat Stieglitz to get the vacant IBF SMW title both guys haven't beat anyone at the Top level, lost in his 1st defence against Bute.

Andrade - Journeyman his best win against Stieglitz *see Berrio, was already Dominated and shutout by Kessler 2 years before, Yet the Journeyman gave Bute the Bambi treatment rocked and out of his feet then tasted the canvas with a very long count he arguably gave Bute his 1st unofficial loss :yep Bute needed a rematch to finally beat the Journeyman.

Zuniga - nothing to say hasn't beaten anyone at the Top Level or at any Level.

Miranda - same as Zuniga, Already beaten by Abraham x2 Allan Green and Ward.

Brinkley - oh god yh you get the picture :|
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Mirand beat Green ! atsch

Jack · Dec 7, 2010

Froch
Ward
Bute
Kessler
Johnson
Abraham

That's the end of relevant super middleweights.

artful · Dec 7, 2010

Badlok said: ↑

Mirand beat Green ! atsch
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My mistake he can have that win they're both still ****

Paulie · Dec 7, 2010

1-Bute
2-Ward
3-Kessler
4-Dirrell
5-Froch
6-Johnson

TommyV · Dec 7, 2010

Brickhaus said: ↑

I don't know where this fiction has come from that Froch's resume is so much better than everyone else's.

Ward:
Dominant win over Kessler, was #1 SMW at the time
Dominant win over Sakio Bika, was #7 SMW at the time
Dominant win over Allan Green, was #9 SMW at the time
Dominant win over Edison Miranda, was a top 15 SMW at the time

Froch:
Close loss to Kessler, who Ward just dominated
Dominant win over Arthur Abraham, was #5 SMW at the time
Close win over Jermain Taylor, was #5 SMW at the time
Close win over Jean Pascal, was #10 SMW at the time
Close win over Andre Dirrell, was a top 15 SMW at the time
Dominant win over Brian Magee, was a top 20 SMW at the time

Hell, just for fun...

Bute:
Mostly dominant win over Librado Andrade, was #6 SMW at the time
Dominant win over Librado Andrade, was #7 SMW at the time
Dominant win over Sakio Bika, was #7 SMW at the time
Dominant win over Alejandro Berrio, was #8 SMW at the time
Dominant win over Jesse Brinkley, was #10 SMW at the time
Dominant win over Fulgencio Zuniga, was #10 SMW at the time
Dominant win over Edison Miranda, was top 15 SMW at the time

The only reason Froch's resume even looks good is because (a) he managed to get a hometown win over Dirrell, who went on to beat Abraham and (b) Pascal has improved considerably since fighting Froch and became light heavyweight champ.

I also don't know why people keep repeating this tripe that Kessler is retired. He's injured. He's said he's fighting again. He's NOT retired.
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Forget the numbers/rankings. Case in point, Andre Dirrell. A close win over him as a 'top 15' SMW at the time, versus Bute's dominant win over a 'top 15' SMW in Miranda. Does that make the Miranda win better? Of course not. Dirrell was only rated top 15 at best because he hadn't stepped up, not through ability. It's clear to see ability wise he's a top 5 SMW and was the same talent wise against Froch. Hence it's essentially a win over a top 5 SMW, not a top 15.

lefty · Dec 7, 2010

Brickhaus said: ↑

FWIW, I'm getting pretty sick of the Froch nuthuggery around here lately. I've laid out rational arguments, and if someone is too dense to even entertain it, that's their problem and not mine. I've avoided doing this up to this point, but let's poke a few holes in Froch's resume:

Pascal - A good win for sure, but anyone who thinks Pascal was the same fighter when he fought Froch as he is now is fooling themselves. His best wins are over Dawson (who the same people who are supporting Froch now spent half their time talking about how crappy he was and how all of his wins came over old, faded fighters), the midget Diaconu and 44 year old Silvio Branco, who he struggled against at times. Still, Froch pulled out the win by the skin of his teeth, barely getting by a guy who was almost knocked out by Omar Pittman just one fight prior.

Taylor - A win that seemed better at the time than it seems now. Here's a guy with a record of 1-3 against decent competition at SMW, with the one win coming over a shot to hell Jeff Lacy. After Froch struggled and knocked Taylor out with one minute left, his very next fight he was dominated by Arthur Abraham and since then has basically retired because he's toast.

Dirrell - This would be a good win...if it was a win. If the fight is just about anywhere outside of England, Dirrell wins the fight. Some of the scoring for this fight was downright absurd. While Dirrell fought 'negatively', he rocked Froch and landed the harder punches in almost every round. Even as such, the only good win Dirrell has is over Arthur Abraham, who isn't all that great of a win.

Kessler - News flash - Froch LOST this fight. He fought very even with Kessler, and it wouldn't have been out of the question if Froch had won on the cards, but he lost and the scoring was perfectly fair. This wasn't a robbery of any kind. And while Kessler is a good fighter, he had just received a major beating from Andre Ward. Plus, to top it off, Kessler says he couldn't even see out of one eye for the fight due to injuries sustained against Ward. So Froch was able to fight even with a one-eyed Kessler. Good for him.

Abraham - Finally someone Froch dominated. Too bad he's not a super middleweight, and his record is more padded than the stay puft marshmellow man. His best win is over a shot Jermain Taylor who retired after the fight, and his next best win is over Edison Miranda, who nobody seems to give Ward or Bute credit for beating, so why should Abraham get credit? After that, it's light hitting pressure fighter Khoren Gevor and a bunch of middleweight defenses against guys who weren't even top 10. He's gone all of 2-2 at super middleweight, and he's basically a walking totem pole who occasionally throws punches. For YEARS before they fought, I've been saying that Froch is a stylistic nightmare for the very basic Abraham, who can't throw a punch when he's under pressure, and who only has a puncher's chance against a tall fighter who can bring pressure and loop punches around his high guard. So while it's a decent win - Abraham was a top 10 SMW after all - it's not as great as people are making it out to be. Abraham was someone Froch SHOULD have beaten thoroughly. He got the job done, and credit to him for that, but it's not a great win.

Now I'm not conceited enough to think my point of view is the only valid one out there. I'm willing to admit there's an argument to put Froch as high as #2 in the division, if you give a lot of weight to strength of schedule. But there's also an argument that he should be as low as #5, and there is NO legitimate argument to have him in the pound for pound top 5.

:hi:
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Great post :happy

MJK · Dec 7, 2010

Beezy said: ↑

Why are Kessler and Dirrel even mentioned?? They're not fighting anytime soon.........

1. Ward
2. Froch
3. Bute
4. G. Johnson
5. Bika
6. Abraham....
.......Dirrel/ Kessler are on my I.R. list.... until they fight again
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Agree with you for you assement of Dirrel an Kessler, but not on Bika.
Bika was nowhere in the first 7 of SMW (some even put Green and Stieglizt before him) and now he lose to Ward and he is no. 5? Theres a case to put Andrade before Bika too, so for a lot of people Bika was on the end of top 10 and some outside of it. I'm not saying they were right, but a lost is still a lost. Either he was above Abraham in the begining of the S6 and still his, or he was behind him and still his.

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