He was as clever as they come. His weakness was that he came to think that cleverness was the only thing that mattered.
I would agree. Sumbu is just the sort of guy that's going to frustrate him. I think old school guys like Holman Williams, Moore, Bivins etc would be pretty tough outs.
Competitive like Foreman- Frazier and Hearns - Duran, or maybe Whitaker - Ramirez II. Or maybe competitive like the fight Toney and Jones actually did have.
Yeah I agree the slick/counter punching style of Kalambay is a bad style match up for Toney, I think honestly it could look like McCallum/Kalambay 1.
For the Jones fight, Toney was not in shape. You could see that from his body structure (just compare that to the Barkely and Littles fight) and his punches which were not sharp (slow and not powerful). So one can assume that a ready Toney would do better and probably lose a competitive decision (116-112 type of decision )
I've always thought Kalambay was a horrible match up for Toney as well, as it goes. In terms of Toney overall - one of my favourite fighters of all time to watch, because he was one of a select group who could make boxing look ridiculously easy and natural when he was on form. As Freddie Roach put it, "he just had things you can't teach." In an age where more and more fighters just look like athletes who have been instructed to throw punches, you really appreciate the nuances in Toney's game. He wasn't perfect, as fleet footed movers would always bother him (hence why I'd pick Kalambay to beat him and he'd struggle to beat Jones even if he was in great shape) and he had a tendency to coast. But that aside he was very strong in most areas. A proper inside fighter, great punch technique, amazing chin, very good power as a 160 / 168 pounder, intelligence, hand speed and world-class anticipation. Says a lot about his talent that he's considered an underachiever, despite his outstanding record.
I honestly find Toney a complete enigma and almost impossible to place. There are only so many excuses you can make for him taking his eye off the ball. However when he was good he was a joy to watch. I suppose it depends how well you rate Roy Jones. If you consider Jones an ATG then when Toney fought a peak ATG he lost and lost badly. His other good wins are against very very good fighters who I would rate a notch or two below ATG, Nunn and McCallum (and he could be judged to have lost the first fight against Mike). His win against Barkley was a beautiful display but Iran was a tough but limited and any other result would have been a surprise frankly. His win over another ATG Holyfield was difficult to rate as Evander didn't look well at all but for a former MW to beat at ATG HW is a feat in itself and he looked good doing it. I think if judged on his skills alone he is an ATG but I think his actual record is a level below, despite his adventures at Cruiser and HW (which maybe diminished due to PED use). H2H I see him as a live opponent for anyone. I also think if he fought in the 70s/80s he would not have been such a lazy slob. I would have loved to see him fight guys like Bobby “Boogaloo” Watts, Willie “The Worm” Monroe, Eugene “Cyclone” Hart, Bad” Bennie Briscoe, Stanley “Kitten” Hayward. All very winnable fights for James although he may have picked up a loss or two like Hagler against these dudes. For some reason I think a fight with Joey Giardello would he been technically very interesting. I think guys like Giardello and Griffith could win simply through being more disciplined but skills wise James could win. I think Toney wins vs Valdez after some rocky moments. I think Monzon was mentally stronger than Toney and think he would simply outlast him if over 15. A Hagler fight would be a pickem for me. Toney would not play Hagler's game and if the Hagler who fought Duran or Leonard shows up he could be out thought over 12. Over 15 it is a bit trickier and I think Marv could grind him down if James is packing some pounds. In both cases I am imagining Toney as being tight at MW, but if in this fantasy James has no weight issues then he could have a very good chance. From rereading my post there are only a handful of champs I see giving him issues which given the history of the MW devision is impressive. Having said that I can't comment on anyone pre 50s really as I don't know enough about those eras, although based on the limited footage I see him chopping up anyone with the Stanley Ketchel style pretty conclusively.
Much less of a concern for a HW who never had much speed anyway. Toney was a true ATG but he'd have had a better career arc and legacy if he'd been able to put the cheeseburger down.
I don’t think there is a guy at his weight he couldn’t beat. He had an honest shot against anyone all the way up to cruiser.
Supremely talented, but one of those guys who seemed to want to make a point of letting you know he could take a couple rounds off and deal with you at his leisure. He fought just hard enough to do what HE thought he needed to do in order to win a round. He was an excellent judge of that, apparently. He knew when to fire for effect and when it was okay to conserve energy. That speaks to a ton of self-confidence, and judges are influenced by that to a degree I think. He could be massively frustrating to watch, and if he'd trained properly I don't think he should have had too big an issue getting down to 168 or especially 175, but he refused to impose any limitations on himself, and that's when he became spottier with his record. Not that such things mattered to him, I'm sure.
There are 2 things I would disagree.I think Mc Callum slips in the ATG rankings. Both Toney and Mc Callum are very close in terms of ATG rankings, I would only give a slight edge to Toney.Also I do not see how anybody could score the first fight for Mc Callum.